La Scala - Change of Woofer??

[jimjimbo]

3 hours ago, Robbie010 said:

Thanks to all for the responses.

 

Can I ask what subs you are using @baron167?

Hello, you might want to start a thread in the Subwoofer forum here, as I'm sure there are lots of recommendations from folks with La Scalas.  Good luck in your search.

[Woofers and Tweeters]

12 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

and definitely not in a Scala , it's the anti-bass speaker 

Too funny.

That's like some people do counterintelligence, but not in an espionage way. 
 

[CECAA850]

11 hours ago, BigStewMan said:

always wanted lascalas -- you have some right?  I will get some when I decide to stop moving around. what will be the biggest noticeable change from the Cornwalls?

Steve, the biggest difference, to me, is that the bass is cleaner on the Lascala and the mid bass punch is more tactile.  The Cornwall goes lower but I prefer to use a sub with my Lascalas and LSI's so that's not an issue that bothers me.  The Lascala is horn loaded down to 100Hz then acts like a direct radiator firing through a small slot below that.  That's why many including myself use a sub with them.

[richieb]

1 hour ago, ricktate said:

I dont think LaScalas lack bass It all boils down to what you got powering them. I never tested them with fancy testing stuff but the HK series receivers make them sound awesome. I use to have cornwalls they sound good but cant keep up with the LaScalas in sound I dont think.  I could not find factory  graph for cornwall maybe some one here has it.

Before reading down to this post I was thinking the same thing. I’m sure I have used over a dozen amps with my LS, both tubes and SS which includes the newest Class D offerings, and bass performance varies within the group of amps I owned. Whether it be design, circuitry, internal components, etc. synergy certainly comes into play. Some would shocked, in a good way,  at bass performance when the right combination is found. 

[Coytee]

35 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

Steve, the biggest difference, to me, is that the bass is cleaner on the Lascala and the mid bass punch is more tactile.  

 

Not having owned Cornwalls (but had a pair here once for about six months holding for someone else)….This is also my assessment as well. 

 

Historically, I had my LaScalas (bought new 1979) and also had a pair of Electrovoice Interface D's.  The EV's had a -3db point at 28Hz.

 

I always described that setup sort of like this....  I used the EV's to shake the foundation of the house (and the LaScalas scored zero in that department) and at the same time, I used the LaScalas to punch you in the chest (and the EV's scored zero in that department)

 

So during college years, I had all 4 in the dorm room and tended to play all 4 at once.  There was no imaging or anything.....it was all about volume and shaking the room (building).  The strengths of each complimented what I thought to be a non-strength for the other.

 

 

[richieb]

37 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

Steve, the biggest difference, to me, is that the bass is cleaner on the Lascala and the mid bass punch is more tactile.  The Cornwall goes lower but I prefer to use a sub with my Lascalas and LSI's so that's not an issue that bothers me.  The Lascala is horn loaded down to 100Hz then acts like a direct radiator firing through a small slot below that.  That's why many including myself use a sub with them.

“is horn loaded down to 100hz then acts like a direct radiator firing through a small slot below that”. Is this the design reasoning and why the doghouse incorporates a slot? I was aware of the doghouse construction but didn’t know it trying to mimic a direct radiator in order to help bass performance at under 100hz. So at 100hz we have a 15 inch. acting like a ported woofer? 

[Coytee]

Forgot to add:  My understanding (very non-technical mind you) is that the K43 allows for more power handling, might add some upper bass response but really adds nothing in the bottom end.  If  you want to maximize the bottom end depth, the K33 would likely be a better choice.  (that's not a statement of fact, that's simply my understanding)

 

As has been said....  LaScala & deep bass are somewhat opposites and it's simply the physics (size) of the bass horn.  Kind of a Tuba verses Trumpet.  A Trumpet will never go as low as a Tuba....why?  it's not as large/long.  If you want to dig low, you generally need to go big. 

[Coytee]

1 minute ago, richieb said:

“is horn loaded down to 100hz then acts like a direct radiator firing through a small slot below that”. Is this the design reasoning and why the doghouse incorporates a slot? I was aware of the doghouse construction but didn’t know it trying to mimic a direct radiator in order to help bass performance at under 100hz. So at 100hz we have a 15 inch. acting like a ported woofer? 

 

My understanding is the slot is what turns the K33/43/whatever from a direct radiator driver to a compression driver.  The housing behind the woofer would be the "driver assembly", the K33 would be the diaphragm and the slot would be the throat of the horn.

 

I'd venture to say that this is the primary engineering thought and to any degree you might squeeze some direct radiator response (which I think happens outside the frequencies that the horn handles) you get some icing on the cake.

 

Roy uses this technique when he created/added the PEQ @ 32Hz on the Jubilee's in an effort to extract a bit more bottom end out of them in a home environment.

[CECAA850]

19 minutes ago, richieb said:

“is horn loaded down to 100hz then acts like a direct radiator firing through a small slot below that”. Is this the design reasoning and why the doghouse incorporates a slot? I was aware of the doghouse construction but didn’t know it trying to mimic a direct radiator in order to help bass performance at under 100hz. So at 100hz we have a 15 inch. acting like a ported woofer? 

What Richard said.  As far as the ported woofer goes, no.

[jimjimbo]

24 minutes ago, Coytee said:

If  you want to maximize the bottom end depth, the K33 would likely be a better choice.  (that's not a statement of fact, that's simply my understanding)

That is true, but I think the OP was looking for something that went deeper than a K33.

[OO1]

1 hour ago, CECAA850 said:

That's why many including myself use a sub with them.

Absolutely --

[Coytee]

Over the years, I've seen many people replace the K33 for something else, usually to make comment that they lost performance with the "new & improved" driver.....  and many of them simply came back to the lowly K33.

 

I find it interesting when non-engineer type attempt to out-engineer PWK.  Never met the man but I've reason to believe that he was a decently sharp knife in the drawer.... 

[OO1]

40 minutes ago, Coytee said:

 LaScala & deep bass are somewhat opposites

Absolutely

[tromprof]

Remember since the LaScala bass is a horn, it’s low range is limited by the length of the horn (think tuba vs trumpet). You can put any driver in you want to but it does not change that basic fact. You can change the output but not the range.

The LaScala needs a good sub and with that rivals the longer Klipschorn with the added benefit of not requiring corners.

[Woofers and Tweeters]

1 hour ago, richieb said:

3 hours ago, ricktate said:

I dont think LaScalas lack bass It all boils down to what you got powering them. I never tested them with fancy testing stuff but the HK series receivers make them sound awesome. I use to have cornwalls they sound good but cant keep up with the LaScalas in sound I dont think.  I could not find factory  graph for cornwall maybe some one here has it.

Before reading down to this post I was thinking the same thing. I’m sure I have used over a dozen amps with my LS, both tubes and SS which includes the newest Class D offerings, and bass performance varies within the group of amps I owned. Whether it be design, circuitry, internal components, etc. synergy certainly comes into play. Some would shocked, in a good way,  at bass performance when the right combination is found. 

Not sure where the chart came from. The chart does show that from 100 Hz down, the Khorn goes deeper and the LaScala is louder. Is the chart only using a set db or is that supposed to be watt per watt? 

[OO1]

the new AL5  still uses the k33   , it has a clear 3D  Sound , and  separation  between the bass , the midrange and  the new tweeter adds a whole lot of presence -

 

Now  , improve on the bass of the K33 to the same effect as the new Celestion driver in the AL-5  , and you have a Khorn  AK-6 -  you want more bass , the Jubilee twin 12 inch woofer design   -

[Panelhead]

Claude has done testing and finds the Eminence Kappa 15C works well in a La Scala bass bin. Not as deep in bass, but no dip at 400 Hz. Plus better definition. 

  Want to try this. But Roy uses the K-33 for a reason.  

[OO1]

1 hour ago, Panelhead said:

Claude has done testing and finds the Eminence Kappa 15C works well in CORNWALL

he also said the Eminence Kappalite 3015 LF-4------550 watts   , WOW  ------- was superior to a k-33in in a  CW  , why not the Scala -  a bit MORE BASS  wouldn't hurt 

[OO1]

how about PEAVEY  FH-1 bass bins -------checkout the size of the dog-house  @Robbie010     -

 

 

 

[Panelhead]

2 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

he also said the Eminence Kappalite 3015 LF-4------550 watts   , WOW  ------- was superior to a k-33in in a  CW  , why not the Scala -  a bit MORE BASS  wouldn't hurt 

  Will it fit? I hear the 15C is tight in many bass bins.