Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 10, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, jimjimbo said: There should be. As usual....well you know the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 10, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, jimjimbo said: A special kind of jail… Yeah....bonehead jail.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 10, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, jimjimbo said: Don’t go away, there are many many people here that feel the same way as you do. Don’t be fooled. Gee...feelings vs facts....importance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 ...I think I understand now. Non-current Klipsch speakers are to be kept spec for that model year. For display and nostalgia purposes only. Like a trophy... a stuffed fish on the wall. Not for critical listening, or the satisfaction availed by the current model. Objectively speaking, does the current La Scala SOUND better than say an ‘86, or ‘72, or you pick...? If the answer is yes, what the hell is so wrong with trying to get closer to that sound with a pair you already own? The answer to this either way will be opinion... Has Klipsch not lowered the crossover point to an improved tweeter on the La Scala? Nothing would please me more than to be able to purchase a Klipsch authorized factory upgrade kit for the La Scala. But failing that, the non-sheep are left to pursue alternative options. Singer used to take trade-ins on new purchases. Then they would destroy the perfectly functional “obsolete” units so they would not detract from sales of new units. It is sacrilege, but maybe that is the solution here. Since we’re jumping to conclusions. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeloManiac Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 My personal preference is to keep a vintage speaker in its original state. I have recapped my 1972 Heresies and oiled the veneer, and then treated them with beewax and that was it. I keep the old capacitors nearby the speakers, you never know. If it ain't broken, don't fix it... The speakers have their own personality, still they sound different depending on the amp and source I use. My Heresies sound great with my equally vintage Harman Kardon 430, and I like them with my cheap TubeCube 7 amp too. I don't like their sound with a modern Marantz PM5005 (not a high end amp, I know). This thread makes me think of the story of grandpa's hatchet: grandpa had this great axe that had been in the family for generations but sometime after the war, someone broke the hatchet's handle, and it was replaced. Then, 30 years later, there was a crack in the head and it was replaced as well. Yet, in the family, it's still called grandpa's hatchet... Anyhow, I just checked the specs of the La Scala, and I'm a bit surprised that they won't go any lower than 51Hz (+/-4db). Is this due to the horn design, or is the woofer limited? If they would go as low as 32 Hz, they would be perfect... Just my two cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 4 hours ago, MeloManiac said: ...I'm a bit surprised that they won't go any lower than 51Hz (+/-4db). Is this due to the horn design, or is the woofer limited? If they would go as low as 32 Hz, they would be perfect... Just my two cents... The La Scala bass bin uses an exponential expansion bass horn. The deal with that is that the exponential expansion has the highest efficiency of horn profiles at their low frequency limit of their output. But they also have a hard cutoff just below the frequency that corresponds to a ~1/4 wavelength of the horn path length. Look to the "Re" curve below, the resistive portion of impedance that corresponds to horn efficiency for the exponential horn profile. The "conical" profile, for reference, is the "Rc" curve. (The "Rh" hyperbolic profile curve actually has the highest efficiency, but also the highest distortion near cutoff, and issues with high frequency polar coverage): (Taken from Dinsdale, March 1974, Wireless World magazine) This means that the effective path length of the "100 Hz" La Scala bass bin actually is about 2.8 feet (86 cm) long. Any output below that point is due to boundary gain using floor, walls, and perhaps even the ceiling (if placed close enough to these room boundaries). Below the La Scala bass bin hard cutoff frequency, it has residual output due to "manifold horn gain", or in other words, the room itself forms a secondary bass horn extension. However, this secondary "room horn" effect is strongly controlled by the "first horn" exponential bass horn section in terms of its remaining efficiency. The woofer inside the La Scala bass bin may be able to be played at a lower frequency than the bass horn's cutoff frequency, but it will not be supported by the bass bin horn in terms of offering its horn gain (impedance transformation). Other bass bin horn profiles that do not have a hard cutoff frequency (notably straight-sided "conical" horns--like the straight sided portions of the K-402 horn) will have increased output below the computed cutoff point relative to exponential expansion, but their output suffers above the 1/4 wavelength point, relative to the exponential horn profile. All loudspeaker designs involve tradeoffs--and this is a notable one for the smaller La Scala over its larger older brother, the Khorn--which is designed to be placed in a room corner to extend its last horn fold. One common denominator: these Klipsch Heritage models are designed to be placed near at least one room wall and on the floor, flat, no gaps underneath it, and does even better in a room corner (+6 dB of extended bass below the "first horn" cutoff point relative to the "quarter space" loading of the bass bin at only a wall-floor interface). Taken from Toole, Loudspeakers and Rooms, 1st Ed., 2008, Focal Press Chris 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Well congratulations everyone. We’ve managed to chase away another new member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 25 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said: We’ve managed to chase away another new member Nope, not "We". Congratulations to those that were so helpful instead of so critical and dismissive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 11 hours ago, JMeader said: My perception was one of making these great speakers look better was a good idea, I also perceived that updating the electronics was also in order. I see that that perception is not shared, Ok I will go away and enjoy what choose to do. If you want to make it pretty..... I think we all understand that. If you want to genuinely improve the sound (on an order of magnitude) then you might drop all your micro improvement ideas.... go active and set a K402 on top. If you like the sound "now" then this will catapult it into another league....AND will still keep it 100% Klipsch engineered! If you are anywhere near or ever pass through the Knoxville, TN area.... I can set a 1979 LaScala (with original 1979 drivers) next to the SAME (other speaker) 1979 LaScala that is using the K402 and actively biamped. There is little doubt that after hearing them side by side you will slap your former self, wondering what you were (are) thinking. Side comment: I've owned LaScalas since I bought them new in 1979 and have the K402 horns as well....so I've heard all the above (as many others here have by now) (pictures are not my speakers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Forgot to mention.... how cool is it when your "tweeter horn" is larger than your entire speaker!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 10 hours ago, fmalloy said: I don't get it. In each case, you've changed so many of the key components (I mean - completely swap out a Mustang motor but you call it a Mustang?) that you can say - well, what's left? I've always wanted to ask in the tractor world.... (and pardon that I might not have the brands correct) "so you just bought a John Deere XYZ tractor!! How nice. However, I'm confused.... a tractor is essentially an engine with a seat, wheels and some parts to let it do some farming work.... the engine in your Deere is manufactured by Yanmar (or someone) over in Asia.... so how is this not really a Yanmar XYZ tractor that is simply painted green to look like a JD??" I know....I know..... 'Shut up Richard!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 I think that Roy has produced the majority of the value that I presently enjoy from Klipsch. To those that don't feel like honoring the man's accomplishments here: perhaps they might be better off frequenting other forums other than the one which was built by the company built by his mentor. I think everyone would be happier and more productive if they acknowledged that fact and reassessed their own egos back into proper perspective. I plan to stay with the particular contributions of Klipsch in the areas where I enjoy the benefits of product ownership--because the value has been so high. I've bought no products from others in this thread. As such, I hold the value they produce here to be much lower than Roy's. He is trying to send a message to those that advise others here to tinker with PWK's designs for which they actually have no measurable or usable expertise in that particular subject domain. It's reasonable to acknowledge this and to behave in like manner with those observations. Good teachers in this subject area are hard to find. This has been my experience over the time that I've been here. Chris 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 7 hours ago, Chief bonehead said: Gee...feelings vs facts....importance? Genius. If only people would apply this to other aspects in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitrofan Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Just because something is different doesn't mean it's better. I agree with and have a ton of respect for Roy on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 10 hours ago, Chief bonehead said: Then you tell me? Based on your prior posts, doing anything at all to mess with an original factory Klipsch speaker means it's not longer Klipsch. Including replacing old, high ESR capacitors with modern, low ESR capacitors. I find this surprising since even PWK, in a letter to Fred Ireson admitted Klipsch Inc. was caught ignoring the ESR of their capacitors for who knows how many serial numbers of the past. From that letter, I was also curious about his "whiskey bottles" comment for capacitors. Those might produce a more "liquid" midrange? LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 58 minutes ago, nitrofan said: Just because something is different doesn't mean it's better. I agree with and have a ton of respect for Roy on this subject. Respect for Roy and agree with most of what he says here, as I did with PWK. They are and were both right about so many things regarding music reproduction, that it cannot be ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Coytee said: Forgot to mention.... how cool is it when your "tweeter horn" is larger than your entire speaker!! Very cool, but volume wise it's not larger, it only appears that way. Sonically, it's far superior to the production LaScala too, as long as you use Roy's settings............but you gotta have a sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 10 hours ago, Chief bonehead said: That said, I could not hear a difference between the two K-55's, so I had no reason to suspect they were different before opening them up. The differences can be measured but the audibility has always been in question, even by PWK in his Dope from Hope in talking about the solder lug version of the K-55. It has a "prettier" curve, proving that Klipsch even improved their product with driver swaps and crossover upgrades without changing the name at all in the early 80's (mostly by Jim Hunter). PWK's comments were right on as I measured the old and new K55's he spoke of, and he was right on both counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 10 hours ago, Chief bonehead said: Is there a maintenance schedule of speakers? Yep, I'd say after 40 years, changing capacitors with the means of messuring the before/after, is not such a bad idea. It's more like replacing the wiper blades on a car, which doesn't affect the Brand in any way, but allows you to see the road better (with a hear the speaker better as an analogy). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 8 hours ago, MeloManiac said: Anyhow, I just checked the specs of the La Scala, and I'm a bit surprised that they won't go any lower than 51Hz (+/-4db). Is this due to the horn design, or is the woofer limited? If they would go as low as 32 Hz, they would be perfect... Just my two cents... the fact that they are specified to go that low has more to do with corner placement rather than the actual horn cutoff. But remember, PWK said the midrange is where we live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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