Woofers and Tweeters Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 I respect and enjoy what Roy has developed through the years. If his desire to keep them all stock is his way to show PWK respect, that is admirable. Isn't the standpoint of keeping it all original counter to making improvements though? Should the Cornwall IV be called something other than Cornwall because it has moved away from what the Cornwall was, and what it was lacking? How many years have people bought Cornwalls for stereo use and complained of the designs shortcoming? If others hadn't made other speakers that were similar to the Cornwall, but better, would we have the Cornwall IV? Does adding bracing to tighten the cabinets make them not a Klipsch speaker? It is tough to believe that this is being debated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, dwilawyer said: The Creator of the Klipsch LaScala Brace for the LS Bass bin is PWK Himself - Anybody have any Doubts , Here is PWK and his Lab LaScala , it is equipped with Braces - 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 10, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 10, 2021 4 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Based on your prior posts, doing anything at all to mess with an original factory Klipsch speaker means it's not longer Klipsch. Including replacing old, high ESR capacitors with modern, low ESR capacitors. I find this surprising since even PWK, in a letter to Fred Ireson admitted Klipsch Inc. was caught ignoring the ESR of their capacitors for who knows how many serial numbers of the past. From that letter, I was also curious about his "whiskey bottles" comment for capacitors. Those might produce a more "liquid" midrange? LOL. You got some right and some wrong. I never said that the oil filled caps never needed replacing. We used to get networks in and replace them with caps that kept the original intent. Make sure that you understand that point. That is why JEM is Klipsch approved. All others....you are on your own. There are very few on here that can actually do measurements to get back to original intent because the loudspeaker is a closed system. Change one compnent and you have to check if it’s still original intent. Pwk was puzzled why someone would change a component on his speakers after it was engineered a certain way. And I agree with him. my question to the op was genuine. He talked about how good they sounded and then mentioned that everything was going to be replaced except for the cabinet. there are many here that espouse modifications and even call them upgrades. I don’t agree. If you don’t know what the original intent is, then how is that so? There are a few people on here that actually want to know what they have done and measure. Those I respect. May not agree but respect. And those are the threads I like to read. Anyway, my comments on this are simple, replacing a component or components does not guarantee the Klipsch original intent. do what you want with your speaker. But it’s not a Klipsch intent speaker anymore. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 10, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: I respect and enjoy what Roy has developed through the years. If his desire to keep them all stock is his way to show PWK respect, that is admirable. Isn't the standpoint of keeping it all original counter to making improvements though? Should the Cornwall IV be called something other than Cornwall because it has moved away from what the Cornwall was, and what it was lacking? How many years have people bought Cornwalls for stereo use and complained of the designs shortcoming? If others hadn't made other speakers that were similar to the Cornwall, but better, would we have the Cornwall IV? Does adding bracing to tighten the cabinets make them not a Klipsch speaker? It is tough to believe that this is being debated. I have said in many other places that my hope in updates to Mr K speakers was to hope to do all things he wanted to do but didn’t get a chance. I respect him very much and I would never do a “Roy” upgrade. I had the privilege to work and talk with Mr K and we always talked about the things he wanted to do. All I hope to do is to do things he wanted but he just ran out of time. You make a lot of assumptions. Not going to debate them. But I will say this, if Klipsch makes an update then by that measure, it is a Klipsch speaker. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted January 10, 2021 Moderators Share Posted January 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: I respect and enjoy what Roy has developed through the years. If his desire to keep them all stock is his way to show PWK respect, that is admirable. Isn't the standpoint of keeping it all original counter to making improvements though? Should the Cornwall IV be called something other than Cornwall because it has moved away from what the Cornwall was, and what it was lacking? How many years have people bought Cornwalls for stereo use and complained of the designs shortcoming? If others hadn't made other speakers that were similar to the Cornwall, but better, would we have the Cornwall IV? Does adding bracing to tighten the cabinets make them not a Klipsch speaker? It is tough to believe that this is being debated. The next time @Trey Cannon is around ask him about the time when he was planning the very first pilgrimage, part of which was at Paul's house with Paul and Valerie. Trey, or someone, solicited questions for Paul from attendees (in advance) and he was sent over to Paul's house to run the questions by Paul. One of the questions was about a particular "mod de jur" on the Forum and Trey has a very vivid recollection of the ensuing conversation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 10, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 10, 2021 4 hours ago, tromprof said: With all due deference... I come to this forum for interesting opinions and some excellent information. I do not come here for drama. I do not like seeing someone who is new seeming subjected to abuse (esp. from someone like "Chief Bonehead"). I really enjoy my Klipsch speakers. I also enjoy playing with older models and trying to wring the best possible sound that I can from them. My 1976 Klispchorns have large EV horns and DH1A drivers in place of the original mid horn/drivers. I now have them time aligned using and Ashly unit as well. They are mine. They are Klispchorns. I do not need anyone's permission to call them that. Make sure you get your facts straight. My original comment to the op was genuine. And once again do what you want to your speaker but it’s not a Klipsch speaker anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 10, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 10, 2021 5 hours ago, Chris A said: I plan to stay with the particular contributions of Klipsch in the areas where I enjoy the benefits of product ownership--because the value has been so high. I've bought no products from others in this thread. As such, I hold the value they produce here to be much lower than Roy's. He is trying to send a message to those that advise others here to tinker with PWK's designs for which they actually have no measurable or usable expertise in that particular subject domain. It's reasonable to acknowledge this and to behave in like manner with those observations. bingo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 10, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 hours ago, fmalloy said: I like to rotate the woofers every couple thousand hours of listening, 1000 if listening to heavy metal. 😉 Heavy metal. Yes. And even a little punk. But I have never rotated my woofers. The woofers I have ever heard of that the manufacturer recommended rotating the woofer was an ev sub that had a 27” woofer. And that was because of its heavy heavy mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstrickland1 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 36 minutes ago, jimjimbo said: If you can take the insults and badgering, go for it. Hey, if you can survive being banned from the banana forum, I'm sure you can suffer most anything...... Ain't worth it. Birch Raw they shall remain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said: But I will say this, if Klipsch makes an update then by that measure, it is a Klipsch speaker. Despite the photo above of PWK showing what appears to be a La Scala with braces in the bass bin, are you suggesting that “updates” must be done as done by Klipsch in order to remain a Klipsch speaker? If so, unless I brace a La Scala bass bin by using thick MDF, does it forfeit the right to wear a Klipsch badge? I respect your engineering skills immensely, diplomacy, not as much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Well he was called out so, what we see is what we get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 10, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, DizRotus said: Despite the photo above of PWK showing what appears to be a La Scala with braces in the bass bin, are you suggesting that “updates” must be done as done by Klipsch in order to remain a Klipsch speaker? If so, unless I brace a La Scala bass bin by using thick MDF, does it forfeit the right to wear a Klipsch badge? I respect your engineering skills immensely, diplomacy, not as much. I’m not a diplomat so I’m good with it. Your history on Klipsch is not complete. Paul did recommend bracing although he proposed a different way. Klipsch started to spec a different plywood specifically for the la scala in order to avoid the resonances. and the answer to your question is yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 10, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 10, 2021 8 hours ago, jimjimbo said: Nope, not "We". Congratulations to those that were so helpful instead of so critical and dismissive. Congrats Jim!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboy6100 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said: I’m not a diplomat so I’m good with it. Your history on Klipsch is not complete. Paul did recommend bracing although he proposed a different way. Klipsch started to spec a different plywood specifically for the la scala in order to avoid the resonances. and the answer to your question is yes. When was the “different” plywood incorporated into La Scala production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 22 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said: 47 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: I respect and enjoy what Roy has developed through the years. If his desire to keep them all stock is his way to show PWK respect, that is admirable. Isn't the standpoint of keeping it all original counter to making improvements though? Should the Cornwall IV be called something other than Cornwall because it has moved away from what the Cornwall was, and what it was lacking? How many years have people bought Cornwalls for stereo use and complained of the designs shortcoming? If others hadn't made other speakers that were similar to the Cornwall, but better, would we have the Cornwall IV? Does adding bracing to tighten the cabinets make them not a Klipsch speaker? It is tough to believe that this is being debated. I have said in many other places that my hope in updates to Mr K speakers was to hope to do all things he wanted to do but didn’t get a chance. I respect him very much and I would never do a “Roy” upgrade. I had the privilege to work and talk with Mr K and we always talked about the things he wanted to do. All I hope to do is to do things he wanted but he just ran out of time. You make a lot of assumptions. Not going to debate them. But I will say this, if Klipsch makes an update then by that measure, it is a Klipsch speaker. Again, I respect what you have done and what you are doing to further what he wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstrickland1 Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, jimjimbo said: If you can take the insults and badgering, go for it. Hey, if you can survive being banned from the banana forum, I'm sure you can suffer most anything...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted January 10, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, nickyboy6100 said: When was the “different” plywood incorporated into La Scala production? It was before my time and I got there in 1986. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Looks like there will be a lot of Klipsch grill badges for sale soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 I met PWK in 1976. He explained that Heritage horns were mounted to the rear of baffle boards because doing otherwise did “not make a dime’s worth of difference.” That was an engineering decision that paid homage to an economic consideration. Good engineers do that constantly. He did not say flush front mounting is not better, but said it wasn’t worth the additional expense. I agree with that assessment. Now Klipsch uses front flush mounting of horns. Klipsch also adopted Monster Cable, rather than the 18 gauge zip cord favored by PWK. Apparently, the owners of Klipsch Heritage are prohibited from adopting “improvements” unless done exactly as done by Klipsch, otherwise they must strip the Klipsch logos from their speakers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, DizRotus said: Now Klipsch uses front flush mounting of horns. Klipsch also adopted Monster Cable, rather than the 18 gauge zip cord favored by PWK. Apparently, the owners of Klipsch Heritage are prohibited from adopting “improvements” unless done exactly as done by Klipsch, otherwise they must strip the Klipsch logos from their speakers. What about placement, does that disqualify them from being Klipsch? I know some use 3 LS for a LCR, is the center not a LaScala at that point. What about the music played, will some music played through them make them non-Klipsch? Are we not permitted to us a sub with the Heritage due to it adding sound that they don't produce themselves? Such a slippery surface that, IMHO, should not have been made worse by sloping it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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