The Fives — separate phono preamp?

[MicroMara]

2 hours ago, BadChile said:

I ran the Ortofon 2M Red off a U-Turn Orbit for about 18 months and it paired well before I switched to the Nagaoka MP-110.

Well done ! The Nagaoka´s Moving Irons are a class of it´s own, even in the price range around $ 150 not to beat.

[scdfndr]

2 hours ago, parlophone1 said:

I would not like to introduce even more confusion, but are you sure the cartridge is properly installed on the turntable?

If I remember correctly, there were customers complaints regarding preinstalled cartridges to their new turntables.

 

 

Thanks all for helping me with this. I’m not sure I would know how to determine whether the cartridge was properly installed and I’m a tad reluctant to tinker with it knowing I don’t know what I’m doing. If someone could tell me how to make a risk-free inspection, I’ll do it. I purchased the TT and 5s from Audio Advice out of NC. They would’ve installed the cartridge. They’ve been super helpful and at least to me seem pretty knowledgeable.

 

In an attempt to rule out anything obvious (like incorrectly installed cartridge?) last night I attempted to post a video/audio snippet of the system actually playing a record. I know, I know. Hardly scientific. But I figured, what could it hurt? But even a 10 second clip was too large to post. So I’m wondering if I could, solely for these purposes, create a temporary YouTube link with a short audio sample, which I could then post here.

 

Would that not help rule out anything obvious like physical damage to some component?

 

 Thanks again everyone. 

[MicroMara]

2 hours ago, parlophone1 said:

I would not like to introduce even more confusion, but are you sure the cartridge is properly installed on the turntable?

If I remember correctly, there were customers complaints regarding preinstalled cartridges to their new turntables.

 

Good question ! Unfortunately not verifiable , since the OP will have no experience with the adjustment of a pickup. He will have to trust his dealer.

[billybob]

Think beyond alignment would also consider a magnifying glass to the stylus itself.

[MicroMara]

3 minutes ago, scdfndr said:

 

Thanks all for helping me with this. I’m not sure I would know how to determine whether the cartridge was properly installed and I’m a tad reluctant to tinker with it knowing I don’t know what I’m doing. If someone could tell me how to make a risk-free inspection, I’ll do it. I purchased the TT and 5s from Audio Advice out of NC. They would’ve installed the cartridge. They’ve been super helpful and at least to me seem pretty knowledgeable.

 

In an attempt to rule out anything obvious (like incorrectly installed cartridge?) last night I attempted to post a video/audio snippet of the system actually playing a record. I know, I know. Hardly scientific. But I figured, what could it hurt? But even a 10 second clip was too large to post. So I’m wondering if I could, solely for these purposes, create a temporary YouTube link with a short audio sample, which I could then post here.

 

Would that not help rule out anything obvious like physical damage to some component?

 

 Thanks again everyone. 

Then I ask you this way, do you hear distortions from instruments that you find unnatural. But after what you just wrote I think you have found a professional dealer who knows his craft.

[billybob]

4 minutes ago, scdfndr said:

 

Thanks all for helping me with this. I’m not sure I would know how to determine whether the cartridge was properly installed and I’m a tad reluctant to tinker with it knowing I don’t know what I’m doing. If someone could tell me how to make a risk-free inspection, I’ll do it. I purchased the TT and 5s from Audio Advice out of NC. They would’ve installed the cartridge. They’ve been super helpful and at least to me seem pretty knowledgeable.

 

In an attempt to rule out anything obvious (like incorrectly installed cartridge?) last night I attempted to post a video/audio snippet of the system actually playing a record. I know, I know. Hardly scientific. But I figured, what could it hurt? But even a 10 second clip was too large to post. So I’m wondering if I could, solely for these purposes, create a temporary YouTube link with a short audio sample, which I could then post here.

 

Would that not help rule out anything obvious like physical damage to some component?

 

 Thanks again everyone. 

May be worth it before much else.

You may call the dealer as well.

I may have been too hasty with my observations.

Maybe some pics/photos would help. Close-up of cartridge and  do look at needle with a glass fore and aft.

[MicroMara]

Alignment of a cartridge. Even when this one is in german language, have a look into it. Pictures say more than languages......

 

 

 

[scdfndr]

5 minutes ago, MicroMara said:

Then I ask you this way, do you hear distortions from instruments that you find unnatural. But after what you just wrote I think you have found a professional dealer who knows his craft.

 

I do not hear any distortion that sounds out of place. I have a good deal of confidence in the people that sold me the setup. 

[scdfndr]

4 minutes ago, billybob said:

May be worth it before much else.

You may call the dealer as well.

I may have been too hasty with my observations.

Maybe some pics/photos would help. Close-up of cartridge and  do look at needle with a glass fore and aft.

 

I have to step out for a few. Later today I’ll create a YouTube link, take some photos, and post here.

 

 Thanks all.

 

Great Forum!

[scdfndr]

Okay. Here it is. The record is a 2005 Classic Records Remaster of Led Zeppelin II, all analog, as I understand it, in NM condition. An aside, I know for some having the speakers on the same surface as the TT is cardinal sin #1. I researched the topic fairly thoroughly and am not concerned that this is a problem. If I’m wrong, please tell me. Also, to reduce the risk of any interference, the speakers rest on very sturdy Kanto stands that may be difficult to see, but they’re there. Finally, please don’t kick me off the forum if after listening you think “WTF is this guy worried about? Sounds good to me!”  

Again, many, many thanks.

 

 

 

[parlophone1]

You are right, it does sound decent to me 😂.

Never mind that, if you hear significant difference between listening from your CD or any other source compared to the turntable, it must be something in the TT analog chain.

From my experience, when amplifier and speakers (in this case in one package) are new and function properly, the TT is set up as it should, then it would be the phono preamp.

I have Ortofon 2M red on my TT and I can attest that it is a solid performer as indicated above in this thread.

I often do hear a difference in comparison to my  CD player, but not so many same albums on vinyl/CD here. Playing from CD could have more details in highs than from records, bass usually sound somewhat different but I address it to technicalities of records mastering process.

But I do notice a difference when including a good phono amplifier.

This was almost a revelation when I first connected a phono amp instead of one being included in my new Onkyo stereo receiver. A big difference for the better.

 

And just one more thing: adjusting the downforce of the cartridge/tonearm.

For Ortofon 2MRed it should be 1,8 grams, at least per specification. My experience with that cart is that it responds very much to slight differences in downforce adjustments.  I mounted it to old Philips turntable which has lighter tonearm than recommended for 2MRed. So my first try was exactly at 1,8 grams. It sounded a bit wailed, muffled. Than I tried 0,05 grams up and down and settled for 1,75 g. This resulted with more clear sound. Now, I bet that ProJect would not recommend 1,8g for nothing, but this is my experience.

[scdfndr]

3 hours ago, parlophone1 said:

You are right, it does sound decent to me 😂.

Never mind that, if you hear significant difference between listening from your CD or any other source compared to the turntable, it must be something in the TT analog chain.

From my experience, when amplifier and speakers (in this case in one package) are new and function properly, the TT is set up as it should, then it would be the phono preamp.

I have Ortofon 2M red on my TT and I can attest that it is a solid performer as indicated above in this thread.

I often do hear a difference in comparison to my  CD player, but not so many same albums on vinyl/CD here. Playing from CD could have more details in highs than from records, bass usually sound somewhat different but I address it to technicalities of records mastering process.

But I do notice a difference when including a good phono amplifier.

This was almost a revelation when I first connected a phono amp instead of one being included in my new Onkyo stereo receiver. A big difference for the better.

 

And just one more thing: adjusting the downforce of the cartridge/tonearm.

For Ortofon 2MRed it should be 1,8 grams, at least per specification. My experience with that cart is that it responds very much to slight differences in downforce adjustments.  I mounted it to old Philips turntable which has lighter tonearm than recommended for 2MRed. So my first try was exactly at 1,8 grams. It sounded a bit wailed, muffled. Than I tried 0,05 grams up and down and settled for 1,75 g. This resulted with more clear sound. Now, I bet that ProJect would not recommend 1,8g for nothing, but this is my experience.

 

Thanks for the response. I don’t have a CD player, but I occasionally stream music using Spotify and my iPhone. The difference is obvious. Streaming is much clearer, but as you might expect lacks the depth and more complete sound of the vinyl. See comparison video below. Thanks for the other info. Guess I should get a scale. 

 

Here are both samples. First is digital steaming; second is vinyl. Hope this helps. Please share your thoughts. Again, many thanks!

 

 

 

 

[MicroMara]

The sound quality on the videos does not allow for an assessment of the actual room sound. Therefore, no comment on my part. What is noticeable, however, is the fact that the Klipsch "The Fives" stand on a wooden board, which creates vibrations. These let especially the tonearm and the pickup of the TT permanently resonate. Therefore, it is impossible that the pickup can scan cleanly and in peace. Furthermore, the vibrations of the active bass of The Fives on the wooden board create a not precise bass reproduction. I would place the "The Fives" on speaker stands to the left and right of the wooden shelf, if possible.  From an acoustic point of view, there is still room for improvement.

 

[scdfndr]

1 hour ago, MicroMara said:

The sound quality on the videos does not allow for an assessment of the actual room sound. Therefore, no comment on my part. What is noticeable, however, is the fact that the Klipsch "The Fives" stand on a wooden board, which creates vibrations. These let especially the tonearm and the pickup of the TT permanently resonate. Therefore, it is impossible that the pickup can scan cleanly and in peace. Furthermore, the vibrations of the active bass of The Fives on the wooden board create a not precise bass reproduction. I would place the "The Fives" on speaker stands to the left and right of the wooden shelf, if possible.  From an acoustic point of view, there is still room for improvement.

 

 

Thanks for the response.  The speakers are actually on stands now and in the second video, however not in the ideal manner you suggest. (The first video was made before I had stands.) See photo below. Does this alleviate or reduce any concern? I suppose in their current position the vibration could nevertheless be transferred from the speaker to the stand to the surface to the TT. I know it would be ideal to have them on free-standing, floor stands. But I really don’t have the space. I also have a concern of the speakers being knocked off the stand as I was unable to locate a floor stand made for the 5s or another that would secure the speaker to the stand. FWIW the dealer, after the sale, told me if I didn’t notice the needle skipping or obvious distortion, the current placement was not an issue. But I’m open to other opinions. 

 

Thanks again for helping me navigate these waters. 

[Zack R]

I'd move the speakers off of that table (or set the turntable somewhere else) and see what happens. 

[OO1]

7 hours ago, scdfndr said:

 

Thanks for the response. I don’t have a CD player, but I occasionally stream music using Spotify and my iPhone. The difference is obvious. Streaming is much clearer, but as you might expect lacks the depth and more complete sound of the vinyl. See comparison video below. Thanks for the other info. Guess I should get a scale. 

 

Here are both samples. First is digital steaming; second is vinyl. Hope this helps. Please share your thoughts. Again, many thanks!

 

 

 

 

wow looks good

[OO1]

3 minutes ago, Zack R said:

I'd move the speakers off of that table (or set the turntable somewhere else) and see what happens. 

not a bad idea at all

[scdfndr]

1 minute ago, Zack R said:

I'd move the speakers off of that table (or set the turntable somewhere else) and see what happens. 

 

I was actually thinking the same thing. I can place them on something else just to sound test. If I notice a difference, I can try to figure something out. And if I don’t, I can always put them back as they are. Thanks for the response.

[MicroMara]

12 minutes ago, scdfndr said:

 

Thanks for the response.  The speakers are actually on stands now and in the second video, however not in the ideal manner you suggest. (The first video was made before I had stands.) See photo below. Does this alleviate or reduce any concern? I suppose in their current position the vibration could nevertheless be transferred from the speaker to the stand to the surface to the TT. I know it would be ideal to have them on free-standing, floor stands. But I really don’t have the space. I also have a concern of the speakers being knocked off the stand as I was unable to locate a floor stand made for the 5s or another that would secure the speaker to the stand. FWIW the dealer, after the sale, told me if I didn’t notice the needle skipping or obvious distortion, the current placement was not an issue. But I’m open to other opinions. 

 

Thanks again for helping me navigate these waters. 

The Fives doesn´t reach your ears for a optimal stereo sound stage if they got such a strong " up to the seeling " angle.

[scdfndr]

1 minute ago, MicroMara said:

The Fives doesn´t reach your ears for a optimal stereo sound stage if they got such a strong " up to the seeling " angle.

Hmm. That’s an excellent point. Do these stands otherwise address your concern with vibration?