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artto's Klipschorn Room


artto

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Wow, artto, thanks for letting me know you had started this thread. Obviously, since I also have Klipschorns and a Belle in the middle of my audio only system, I found your strategically placed foam and masonite most interesting. I will be building a new environment for my Heritage units later this year.

For the moment, I am concentrating on building a prototype mobile unit on a trailer bed. The design includes a roof that raises to allow the sides to fold out creating a 12' high, 18' wide and 30' long acoustically tailored unit based on the Golden Mean. The Legend prototype will have seven KLF-30's in a 7.1 configuration with a pair of KLF-C7's as front effects speakers. Dual stacked Ultras will provide the HT bass. The center, side/surrounds, and rear effects KLF-30's will have their motor boards altered to allow them to be mounted horizontally. That way, there is a wider coverage angle which means that more folks can fit inside the theater.

While dense, heavy materials make the best bass traps, every extra pound of weight adds up to the transportation cost of a mobile unit. As it is, I plan four specially developed 30' trailers to create a community compound for the vendors, players, etc. So, any foam sandwiches that would seal the walls and keep the sound within and the tranquility without. =HornEd

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HornEd....have you checked out ProSpec Noise Barrier from Sonex? Its only 1/8" thick & has better sound blocking per weight than lead. Might be just what you need. I wish it was available when I built my room. I may still install it but it will require taking some of the room apart which I don't have time for right now.

http://www.mhtc.net/~lowey/Noise%20Barriers.htm

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  • 2 months later...

Arrto,

Thanks for the beautiful pictures of what I call your Ball Room! I really enjoyed seeing how much changing the wall panel from vertical to horizonial made the room apper even taller....you are a design artist? Thanks for sharing....

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  • 2 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

LINNs---- whew! you must be pulling in some BIG $$$$. Damm fine Audio EQ! Why not pull out all the stops with Naim and Anthony Gallo...but that is a whole other playing uh!

Very Nice Work on the Room---especially the Audio Setup...one question:

Have you a PC in that room hooked to the back of your reciever?

If not, you should consider it and then put on Medal of Honor or Wolfenstien and SHUT THE DAMM DOOR!!! You won't be comming out for awhile! 2.gif

BTW- I drool at your setup!3.gif3.gif3.gif

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Thanks CentriK. I don't have a PC hooked up there yet. But Dave Mallet (forum member) has suggested it. Eventurally I'm sure I will. When I do, it will be more for music storage & playback. I've never been much of a gamer. Eventually, I would like to install a 100 inch HDTV projector down there.

No offense to Naim or Anthony Gallo. But IMHO, what's in this room is far superior to anything Naim or AG puts out.

And it doesn't necessarily take big bucks to accomplish this either. You just have to be shrewd. The Linn was purchased new in 1982 (not shrewd). The Thorens TT was bought used for $50 from a guy who was selling it to "get one of those low rumble direct drive TT's." LMAO. The Luxman MB3045 triode amps were bought for $250 each, NEW (very shrewd). The large vertical curved deflectors are made from 1/4" Masonite, a dense partical board. $4 for a 4'x8' sheet (very very shrewd).

Thanks again for your comments!

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Arto,

You are the ONLY other person I've encountered with a Decca Int'l. arm! I wish I'd seen this thread before Indy. I'd like to talk to you about it. I have mine in a thorens TD-124. Initially, I used a Sonus Blue Label cartridge with it and it's the only setup I've heard that could track the 1812 Ovature LP with digitally recorded cannon. Sonus went belly up and I bought an AT OC-9 for it. It's still going strong. I bought the Thorens and the arm in college for $200 (?).

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Laminated 1/2" x 2 Celotex sound board (1"). There is a 2" air space between the interior drywall & the Celotex. Auralex Sound Barrier is sandwiched between the laminated sheets of Celotex. Closed cell foam (barely visible along bottom & side edges) & duct tape to seal off any air leaks between the wall & Celotex panel. The Lower wall is below grade. Large floor to ceiling convex Masonite diffusor is to the left.

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Wood 'stand-offs' screwed into the Celotex panels. The stand-offs stagger the offset distance between the wall & the sound aborption to increase its efficiency (reflected sound is now absorbed by both sides) & broadband absorption (to lower frequencies).

post-10840-1381924577444_thumb.jpg

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Sound absorption, some secured directly to the Celotex panel, others secured to the wood 'stand-offs' with a 4 inch air space between the sound absorption (in these instances, 4" Sonex anechoic wedge panels) and the Celotex.

post-10840-1381924577523_thumb.jpg

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Finished wall with the Masonite diffusors installed over the Celotex & Sonex. The idea here is to trap more & more sound as the sound pressure level increases, while still maintaining some 'livelyness' at lower levels.

post-10840-1381924577618_thumb.jpg

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Same thing as above, different angle. Large floor to ceiling Masonite diffusor to the left. Notice the "L" clip on the ceiling to secure the Masonite panels to the ceiling. The ceiling clips are secured into the ceiling joists (not just the drywall!!)

post-10840-1381924577695_thumb.jpg

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Wow Art!

It was nice talking with you last saturday.

It really looks like you have been doing some acoustic research. How long have you been working on this room? Is it been all trial and error, do you use instruments to measure the room or just your ears?

I need to build some false corners for my Khorns so I can move them into a larger room, then I need to get an Oak Belle for the center, then I can work on sound treatments.

I bet it sounds wonderful!

Regards,

Greg

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YehI had a great time last Saturday too.

The room was originally built around 1982-83. It was originally designed with the short wall dimension (18.5 wall) in mind, the long (deep) proportion being the listening area, as in a theater. I didnt like the results I was getting. Too much rear, rear side wall room reflections in a small (relatively speaking) room. On a whim, I decided it might me time to try the wide-stage stereo PWK proposed since I clearly had the room for it. From there I used basic acoustic principals for recording studios & auditoriums (I have a background in architecture & still play music pro on the side). Using hand clapping, finger snapping, And listening to my own voice from whisper to shouting, I aurally tuned the room by ear. I then borrowed a McIntosh real-time frequency analyzer with a calibrated B&K mic from my local dealer to verify the results. In the early 90s I revised the room again to the current version you see with the Masonite polycylindrical diffusers on the upper walls & the large vertical frontal ones. The acoustic treatment behind the Masonite diffusers is the current acoustical upgrade that is in progress. The rear wall revisions are almost complete with the new Auralex DST tiles & DST bass traps in burgundy to match the carpeting. Ill be posting pics in a few weeks. When Im all done, Ill take measurements again. I suspect the system response curve will show a little more downward slope with increasing frequency because of the newly installed bass trapping. Right now Im getting much more bass (flatter, less humpy) & everything top to bottom has more definition.

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  • 1 month later...

Here are two pics of the newly revised rear wall treatments. The pic quality is not up to par as these are some of the first pics I took with my new (& first) digital camera. Still have to get used to this thing. And the room walls still have to be painted.

post-10840-1381924577751_thumb.jpg

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After doing some further experimenting, I decided to add more sound absorption, but made some adjustments as to placement and increased bandwidth (commonly known as 'broadband' absorption). The large curved panels act as broadband diffusors and absorb more bass than treble, as well as help to break up standing waves. However, I found that by increasing the amount of broadband absorption on the rear wall & rear side walls the definition & detail were greatly improved. Even more surprising was the low end response. I added some open cell acoustical foam 'bass traps' made by Auralex Acoustics, placed horizontally across the rear wall/ceiling intersection, and vertically in the rear corners of the room. The bass is much deeper & more detailed.

At first I was puzzled by this because technically speaking, these so-called 'bass traps' actually absorb more middle & treble frequencies than bass. I spoke with Auralex's acoustical engineer. He agreed that calling them 'bass traps' was misnomer. The marketing department's idea. But he went on to explain what was happening. The pressure building up in the corners is a result of standing waves. While there are other points of pressure build-up in the room beside the corners, most often, the opposite of the pressure build up is experienced, a pressure "null." These are common near the listening positions. Since we cannot absorb energy at a null point, we put "traps" in corners to absorb the peaks. This has the result of nulling the null. In other words, where there was cancellation before (at the listening position), there is now - perceivably - more bass. The cancellations are reduced and more direct low frequency energy from your speakers is reaching your ears. It is somewhat counterintuitive, but that's what happens physically.

The angled 'louvered' traps (Auralex DST LENRD's) across the rear wall ceiling intersection is 16' wide. The vertical ones (Auralex LENRD's) in the rear corners are floor to ceiling. The square 'shingles' on the rear wall are Auralex DST 114's, stacked up to 3 (shingles) deep. LENRD stands for Low-End Node Reduction Device.

This setup is still preliminary but seems to work exceptionally well.

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