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JohnCarney

Minimum Room Size for La Scalas?

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What is the minimum room size you need for La Scalas?  In the manual I see it suggests 13' - 17' between the speakers.  In my family room (my only option), I can put the speakers into an alcove about 11.5' wide (which has corners) and I'd be about 15' - 17' from the back wall of the alcove.  Looking through the forum, there's been a variety of opinions for rooms about this size, some people saying too small and try Heresies or Fortes, and other people saying it would work.  I can't say I've found any definitive answer yet in the forum or any specific criteria like "room this small would make the sound less than ideal for these reasons" or a "room this small would work for these reasons."  If you think it would be a bad idea, what exactly would a room this size do to the sound?  Or have you had personal experience with La Scalas in the room this size where it was great?

 

Thanks in advance for any insight you can share!

 

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Welcome John, if the room is wide enough to place two La Scalas in there, it's wide enough! There really isn't any definitive answer, every room is different. But your room sounds big enough for them. 

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It's as much an aesthetic decision as it is an acoustic decision.

 

If the speakers take up too much room making it difficult to move around them or displace furniture, or they just visually dominate the room, then I'd say they're too large.

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Welcome.

 

Your room will be fine.  I’ve used La Scalas in smaller spaces and in much larger spaces with excellent results.

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My friend built a shed in his back yard...I think it is 10x12, and he has a HT in it with 3 LaScalas. His setup sohnds great too.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk

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Yes... congrats on your decision.

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14x17 room sound is great

 

First room I had them in was approx 18x30

 

10-12 ft apart on  the 18ft wall sounded great aimed straight ahead

the furniture was on the opposite wall, people couldn't believe how good it sounded

 

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  I originally had my La Scala’s about 9’ apart and toed in about half way to facing sweet spot. After reading about more spread I moved them further apart with more toe in. Still a ways from the room corners.

  Will move back. I think they sound better when closer together. The 13 to 17 feet apart seems extreme. I could move them out that far, but it would require a lot of toe in. Center fill issues.

  

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I used to listen to my La Scalas along the short wall in an 8” equilateral triangle, pretty much nearfield, with about three feet between them and the back wall and another eight feet behind me.

 

It was the best position in my 12 x 20 room.

 

...never felt the need for headphones after that

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On 1/27/2021 at 8:36 AM, JohnCarney said:

Wow, thanks everyone for answers and the welcome.  Guess I'm getting La Scalas!

WELCOME TO THE FORUM , KEEP US POSTED WHEN YOU GET THEM -

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So much great info.  I really appreciate all the replies.  I'll definitely keep you posted when I get them.  Best forum ever!

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On 1/27/2021 at 7:36 PM, Panelhead said:

  I originally had my La Scala’s about 9’ apart and toed in about half way to facing sweet spot. After reading about more spread I moved them further apart with more toe in. Still a ways from the room corners.

  Will move back. I think they sound better when closer together. The 13 to 17 feet apart seems extreme. I could move them out that far, but it would require a lot of toe in. Center fill issues.

  

 

How far away from your speakers do you sit?  The generally recommended equilateral triangle (the distance between the speakers is the same as the distance from you to each speaker) usually works out well.  The La Scalas don't have to be in the room corners.  That was always their advantage over the Khorns.  Besides, at 17 feet apart, they would certainly need a centre speaker to fill in the hole.  PWK himself discovered this when he got a big enough room to require his Klipschorns to be about 18 feet apart.  That's why he invented the world's first centre speaker, the Heresy.  When he wanted a bigger centre speaker, with output closer to the Khorns' level, he came up with the Cornwall ("It can located in a corner or along a wall.").  Then he wanted a horn-loaded centre, to match the feel of his Khorns, so he used an early La Scala.  When his first wife, Belle, grumbled about its looks (the first example of WAF), he built the Belle Klipsch for her, which some call the best-looking Heritage Series speaker.  Nothing like being married to an engineer!

 

So, if you're not using a centre speaker, keep your La Scalas less than about 15-16 feet apart.  Toe-in is good, but they don't have to be pointed straight at you, or even close to that.  In my experience with my La Scalas, the more they're toed in, the narrower the sweet spot becomes.  To make it wider, so I didn't have to sit in one exact spot of the sofa, with my nose precisely lined up with the badge on my centre Belle Klipsch (just used for surround sound, not for 2-channel listening), I've reduced the amount of toe-in twice.  I'm thinking of placing something a bit slippery under the speakers, like sheets of cardboard, to make it easier to tweak the toe-in, because I'm starting to suspect that there is no ideal or perfect degree of toe-in.  I think I'll continue to mess with it, maybe depending on my mood, so I want it to be easy to do without assistance.

 

Also, you don't have to have your back against the wall behind you.  It's better if you don't, because then you won't be in the middle of reflections from the back wall behind you.  It's better to be at least part-way into the soundfield.  One recommendation states that you should be 1/3 of the way into the room, with 2/3 of it from your sitting position to the front wall (the wall behind the front speakers).  As with all general recommendations, these are just guidelines.  They'll get you into the ballpark, then you tune in the position of everything in your particular room, plus the degree of toe-in of your speakers.  Set everything up, see how you like the way it sounds, and adjust a bit if it doesn't seem quite right.  Listen for a week or two, and think about it a bit more, and tweak it a bit more if you feel the need.

 

Just as an example, my La Scalas are around 12-1/2 feet apart, while I sit about 12 feet from either speaker.  The back wall is about 4-1/2 feet behind me.  The soundstage locates every instrument and singer pretty firmly in space, with everything being the right, realistic, size.  This means that a singer is in one spot, not spread out with their mouth 8 feet wide.  Some speakers can give that effect, which is not what anybody wants.  Once again, research, experiment, and you'l find the best arrangement for your speakers in your room.

 

Nuff said! 

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9 hours ago, Islander said:

How far away from your speakers do you sit?  The generally recommended equilateral triangle (the distance between the speakers is the same as the distance from you to each speaker) usually works out well.  The La Scalas don't have to be in the room corners.

I found this at Mapleshade Audio:

 

Quote

For speaker placement, DO NOT use the rule of thirds or the equilateral triangle rule; they don’t work. To set speaker distance from the wall behind, start with the cabinet rear 18” away. Listen, move them 6” forward, repeat. As you move forward, imaging will improve but bass boost will decrease. Pick the distance that gives you the best balance.

The placement into room corners in a very small room is usually one of necessity to get use of the room itself. Use adjacent wall acoustic treatments to keep from having to pull them out of the corners.  Add more treatments until imaging is achieved.

 

Additionally, I've found that La Scalas and Belles need all the help they can get in terms of low frequency extension, so corner placement--if you desire bass response from them at all, is required. The only consideration that I've found is in providing nearfield reflection control for midrange frequencies (200-1500 Hz).  This is usually absorption panels, etc., due to the frequencies involved that diffusion panels can't handle.  Just on the adjacent walls out to about a yard/metre from the loudspeaker cabinets.

 

Chris

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