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New to Khorns


Kjunkie
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About 20 years ago I bought a set of KLF 20s and KLF 10s.  I spent a few evenings at Circuit City trying to figure out which ones I wanted.....eventually I just bought both and have enjoyed them immensely.  (they sounded different from each other, but depending on the music played, I couldn't decide which one I liked best.  They were heavily discounted, so I bought them both).

 

Last year I decided to update my system and started looking on CL for used Klipsch speakers.   Unfortunately, you can't just go to a store make your choice in person.    I bought and hauled home one by one over the past year and a half:

 

Cornwall II

Reference 3 (RF3.  For $80.  These things are amazing!)

Forte 

Chorus II

Epic 3

KLF20 (second set.  price was so low I couldn't leave them)

 

Last month a Klipschorn came available at a price I was willing to pay.  I went to the house and in the garage next to the nearly perfect KHorns from 1990 was a mint set of Belle Klipsch from 2000 with matching set of Heresy IIs bought at the same time.

 

I don't know if this will make sense to anyone else, but after spending some time playing with this mess, I've come to the conclusion that aside from appearance, I'd be happy with any of them.    They all make my favorite music sound wonderful.

 

My favorite set up 5.0 is:

Chorus II front

KLF20 rear

Epic center.

 

Two channel favorite is Belle. 

 

I did the Crites tweeter and crossover upgrades on my original 20s.   WHAT A DIFFERENCE THAT MADE!!!!    A/B they are slightly different but difficult to describe and unless immediate A/B switching hard to detect.

 

The Khorns are in a second home in another state.  I hauled them up there, placed them in the corners on the long wall of a nearly perfect sized rectangular room.  I turned them on and was horribly disappointed with what I heard.  Unfortunately I didn't have much time to work with them, so I'm hoping someone else had a similar experience and can help me identify what I've done wrong.

 

 

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Did you also purchase the Belles? I am looking for one to use as a center for my Klipschorns.

 

Mine are ‘77’s and I have thoroughly enjoyed them. I can only guess you feel the LaScalas are much “brighter” than the K horns so maybe it just a loudness thang?? How do the two different rooms compare that each are in? Room acoustics and placement can have a huge impact on their performance.

 

Good luck sorting them out, and if those Belles are still available I’ll split the cost with you for both of us a center!

 

Happy listening!

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I did buy the Belle, Klipschorn and Heresys.

 

The Belle set are the best of everything I own.  Cosmetically they are perfect and the sound is superior, although not by much.

 

Klipschorn polarity was the first thing I checked.   Just to make sure, I wired them out of phase which made them worse.   i have a set of KLF20s next to them.   a/b: the Legends are much better, which tells me I have a problem! 

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The drivers seem to be functioning properly, but they sound out of phase.  Image is confused,  bass is there but very low volume.  The sound is almost annoying.  I reversed one of the wires to make sure they were pushing and pulling together, but it was very obvious they were NOW out of phase.   I rewired with red to red, black to black and sound was better, but still not pleasant.  I wired the Legend 20s back in, and they sounded great.   They are not located in my primary residence so I didn't have much time to work with them before I had to go back home. 

 

Very odd.

 

Thanks in advance for suggestions!

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3 hours ago, Kjunkie said:

The drivers seem to be functioning properly, but they sound out of phase.  Image is confused,  bass is there but very low volume.  The sound is almost annoying.  I reversed one of the wires to make sure they were pushing and pulling together, but it was very obvious they were NOW out of phase.   I rewired with red to red, black to black and sound was better, but still not pleasant.

 

I assume you have double checked the polarity of all drivers (tweeter to midrange, midrange to woofers, left loudspeaker to right).  If so, then if you've got a calibration microphone that can output it's signal into a digital bus (USB microphone, etc.), you can install REW and take a sweep.  You'd know what's going on from those two measurements.  Once you get the microphone, etc. and everything wired together (computer to microphone USB output, computer to DAC or preamp or HDMI to player-->preamp), the time to take two upsweep measurements is measured in seconds.

 

Other than that, three things that most people having trouble with Khorns typically overlook (and assuming the polarity of everything is okay):

 

1) plenty of absorption on the floor out to at least 3-4 feet.  If your ceiling isn't about 8-9 feet high, you're going to have ceiling bounce issues. Make sure there are no acoustically reflective objects within that radius.  Side walls and front wall must be smooth--without protrusions (like bricks or other non-smooth walls). 

 

2) move back away from the Khorns at least 12 feet to listen to them (15 feet is better).  If you're inside that radius, you're probably going to hear the time misalignments of the bass bin/midrange. 

 

3) make sure the seal on the back of the Khorns to walls (front and side walls) is complete and no gaps exist.

 

Chris

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On 2/4/2021 at 8:28 PM, Kjunkie said:

 

The Khorns are in a second home in another state.  I hauled them up there, placed them in the corners on the long wall of a nearly perfect sized rectangular room.  I turned them on and was horribly disappointed with what I heard.  Unfortunately I didn't have much time to work with them, so I'm hoping someone else had a similar experience and can help me identify what I've done wrong.

 

 

let's start from scratch  --  post a few pictures of the khorns -

how old are the Khorns ---?

take an Ohmmeter and check the DCR  of all the drivers-woofers-midrange-tweeter ,   and report back  the results  -?

what is the crossover version -  ?

what kind of amplifier are you using ?    what are the power specs of the amp -

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16 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

let's start from scratch  --  post a few pictures of the khorns -

how old are the Khorns ---?

take an Ohmmeter and check the DCR  of all the drivers-woofers-midrange-tweeter ,   and report back  the results  -?

what is the crossover version -  ?

what kind of amplifier are you using ?    what are the power specs of the amp -

 

On 2/4/2021 at 7:28 PM, Kjunkie said:

About 20 years ago I bought a set of KLF 20s and KLF 10s.  I spent a few evenings at Circuit City trying to figure out which ones I wanted.....eventually I just bought both and have enjoyed them immensely.  (they sounded different from each other, but depending on the music played, I couldn't decide which one I liked best.  They were heavily discounted, so I bought them both).

 

Last year I decided to update my system and started looking on CL for used Klipsch speakers.   Unfortunately, you can't just go to a store make your choice in person.    I bought and hauled home one by one over the past year and a half:

 

Cornwall II

Reference 3 (RF3.  For $80.  These things are amazing!)

Forte 

Chorus II

Epic 3

KLF20 (second set.  price was so low I couldn't leave them)

 

Last month a Klipschorn came available at a price I was willing to pay.  I went to the house and in the garage next to the nearly perfect KHorns from 1990 was a mint set of Belle Klipsch from 2000 with matching set of Heresy IIs bought at the same time.

 

I don't know if this will make sense to anyone else, but after spending some time playing with this mess, I've come to the conclusion that aside from appearance, I'd be happy with any of them.    They all make my favorite music sound wonderful.

 

My favorite set up 5.0 is:

Chorus II front

KLF20 rear

Epic center.

 

Two channel favorite is Belle. 

 

I did the Crites tweeter and crossover upgrades on my original 20s.   WHAT A DIFFERENCE THAT MADE!!!!    A/B they are slightly different but difficult to describe and unless immediate A/B switching hard to detect.

 

The Khorns are in a second home in another state.  I hauled them up there, placed them in the corners on the long wall of a nearly perfect sized rectangular room.  I turned them on and was horribly disappointed with what I heard.  Unfortunately I didn't have much time to work with them, so I'm hoping someone else had a similar experience and can help me identify what I've done wrong.

 

 

 

1990 K-horns should be AK2 or AK3 crossovers.  

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  • 3 weeks later...

When I first connected them, I didn't have much time.   I replaced my Cornwall IIs with the new (to me) Klipschorns.   I have a pair of KLF20s also connected o the same Yamaha 2600  7.1 receiver.  I didn't do anything more than just switch the wiring.  

 

I turned them on, with the same settings which were present the last time I was in that space.   The KLFs were set up so I could A/B them.  

 

KLFs sounded great, and in comparision with the Khorns, they sounded much better.

 

Three weeks later, when I made it back to where the Khorns are, after checking the wiring for phase issues, I checked the reciever settings.   Surround sound!#$%@.   Once I switched to pure direct....MAGIC.  and I mean MAGIC!!

 

KLFs still sound great, but not anything like Khorns.

 

As a side note:

 

I knew my Cornwalls had crossover issues, so on this trip I replaced the original 1986 crossovers with new ones from Crites.    The difference is amazing.  I bought the Cornwalls from a gentlemen who had them for a while but wanted to upgrade to something different.   I think if he had done some research he would have saved some serious money by just renewing what he already had.  (I'm fortunate that he didn't because for $500 plus the crossovers and titanium tweeters, I have a great sounding pair of Cornwall IIs.)

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1 hour ago, Kjunkie said:

When I first connected them, I didn't have much time.   I replaced my Cornwall IIs with the new (to me) Klipschorns.   I have a pair of KLF20s also connected o the same Yamaha 2600  7.1 receiver.  I didn't do anything more than just switch the wiring.  

 

I turned them on, with the same settings which were present the last time I was in that space.   The KLFs were set up so I could A/B them.  

 

KLFs sounded great, and in comparision with the Khorns, they sounded much better.

 

Three weeks later, when I made it back to where the Khorns are, after checking the wiring for phase issues, I checked the reciever settings.   Surround sound!#$%@.   Once I switched to pure direct....MAGIC.  and I mean MAGIC!!

 

KLFs still sound great, but not anything like Khorns.

 

As a side note:

 

I knew my Cornwalls had crossover issues, so on this trip I replaced the original 1986 crossovers with new ones from Crites.    The difference is amazing.  I bought the Cornwalls from a gentlemen who had them for a while but wanted to upgrade to something different.   I think if he had done some research he would have saved some serious money by just renewing what he already had.  (I'm fortunate that he didn't because for $500 plus the crossovers and titanium tweeters, I have a great sounding pair of Cornwall IIs.)

That’s funny..... My wife and I recently built a new home, and in the basement I have a dedicated listening room. Once I got everything in and hooked up, except the tv, I wanted a test drive. Powered up, CD in, sounded horrible, vocals were a mess and just didn’t sound right at all. I have a 2.1 system using an Emotiva 7.1 pre/pro, UI is less than optimum without a tv. Once I installed my tv and checked the setup via the UI on my screen, there it was...surround. A couple of adjustment later....NIRVANA! I feel your pain, and felt so silly! I hope you can enjoy yours now as much as I have mine!

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