Celestion Axi2050 2" compression driver on K-402 horn and Jubilee bass bin

[MMurg]

9 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said:

Actually I call it an extended wide dispersion phase plug but what do I know.....🙂

 

I'm corrected a second time.  @Chief bonehead, since you designed it I'll call it what you call it.  🙂 

[LTusler]

11 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

Just on a cautionary note. Do you think the 2050's that Klipsch buys (and perhaps modifies) are same quality as the ones  that Parts Express buys? Do you think that Klipsch might require certain modifications on the 2050's when they buy them? Something to consider. 

I'm willing to bet they are the same with the exception of the addition Roy made to them for the new Jubilee application.  I trust ChrisA's testing, configuration and opinion that they are a worthwhile upgrade over the K691.  I took a leap of faith that the Jubilee's would be a good fit for me, they are, and now I will take another one with the new drivers.

[LTusler]

11 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

Just on a cautionary note. Do you think the 2050's that Klipsch buys (and perhaps modifies) are same quality as the ones  that Parts Express buys? Do you think that Klipsch might require certain modifications on the 2050's when they buy them? Something to consider. 

I'm willing to bet they are the same with the exception of the addition Roy made to them for the new Jubilee application.  I trust ChrisA's testing, configuration and opinion that they are a worthwhile upgrade over the K691.  I took a leap of faith that the Jubilee's would be a good fit for me, they are, and now I will take another one with the new drivers.

[LTusler]

11 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

Just on a cautionary note. Do you think the 2050's that Klipsch buys (and perhaps modifies) are same quality as the ones  that Parts Express buys? Do you think that Klipsch might require certain modifications on the 2050's when they buy them? Something to consider. 

I'm willing to bet they are the same with the exception of the addition Roy made to them for the new Jubilee application.  I trust ChrisA's testing, configuration and opinion that they are a worthwhile upgrade over the K691.  I took a leap of faith that the Jubilee's would be a good fit for me, they are, and now I will take another one with the new drivers.

[LTusler]

Sorry about the duplicates.

[VDS]

I’ve been using the Celestion’s and find it impossible to get any output above 10khz.  I’m using Xilica to drop 800-5000hz down by about 5-10db to get to 10khz, while setting 13khz to +8db.   I see a 15khz bump but it’s down another 10-15 dB.  Do I really need to attenuate below 5000hz to -20db or more? 
measurements are 1meter from horn mouth, mic horizontal aiming right at K402 throat.

thanks, Ted

[VDS]

43 minutes ago, VDS said:

I’ve been using the Celestion’s and find it impossible to get any output above 10khz.  I’m using Xilica to drop 800-5000hz down by about 5-10db to get to 10khz, while setting 13khz to +8db.   I see a 15khz bump but it’s down another 10-15 dB.  Do I really need to attenuate below 5000hz to -20db or more? 
measurements are 1meter from horn mouth, mic horizontal aiming right at K402 throat.

thanks, Ted

Looking at Loudspeaker database’s frequency graph,  it does show 15khz down about 18db

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, VDS said:

I’ve been using the Celestion’s and find it impossible to get any output above 10khz.  I’m using Xilica to drop 800-5000hz down by about 5-10db to get to 10khz, while setting 13khz to +8db.   I see a 15khz bump but it’s down another 10-15 dB.  Do I really need to attenuate below 5000hz to -20db or more? 
measurements are 1meter from horn mouth, mic horizontal aiming right at K402 throat.

thanks, Ted

Can you forward your Xilica .xdat preset file?

 

Chris

[VDS]

34 minutes ago, VDS said:

Looking at Loudspeaker database’s frequency graph,  it does show 15khz down about 18db

I misspoke earlier, the bump at 15khz is down 40db. 

[Chris A]

Did you ever use the PEQ settings that I posted?  Note that there is ~22 dB of overall EQ that's required:

 

 

Chris

[JeffAnderlite]

On 3/5/2021 at 5:17 PM, Chris A said:

One set of plots that I didn't plot above is harmonic distortion.  I see no real differences between the TAD TD-4002 and Axi2050 drivers across their respective passbands.  Since THD is basically only showing you second harmonic distortion, in order to see the higher order (and therefore, more audible) harmonics, I have to plot those separately.  First the TAD driver on a full-up Jubilee with bass bin at 93 dB (at one metre microphone distance, crossed at ~525 Hz) :

 

 

Then the same harmonic distortion levels at 93 dB for the Axi2050 with Jubilee bass bin (crossed at 225 Hz):

 

 

Chris

Hey Chris,

 

I am about to inherit some newer 1 year old jubilees with Celestion Axi2050 drivers. I will have parasound p6 pre and a23+ for top with 500wpc peachtree amp500 for the bottom. I am getting these because my brother who had the jubes didn't want to deal with setting them up. I on the other hand am excited and willing to mess with the xilica to get it dialed in. I have never used xilica or REW but i'm pretty handy so i'm sure ill be competent once i start diving into it.  Since we put the new drivers in and i will be setting them up for the first time at my house in about 2-3 weeks i am wondering if you would be willing to send me your settings that you use with these drivers and help me with some best practices for dialing them in with my amps, gains, REW etc. 

I know you're the maestro around here with this stuff so learning from you would mean a lot and i'm sure would also help me get where i'm trying to go infinitely faster!

 

My name is Jeff Anderlite by the way. I read all these forums and love it! Please email if you would be willing to help me out! anderlitej@gmail.com

 

Thanks so much!

Jeff

Edited December 30, 2021 by JeffAnderlite

[Josh Ricci]

I may as well add my 2 cents in here as well. 

I bought the Axi2050's and some 402's at the end of 2019 and have done extensive testing / listening. 

The short version is that my subjective opinion is somewhat in between Chris A. and Bjorn's. 

 

Even with EQ to flatten and extend the HF response of the Axi2050's I would rate the treble as good but not exceptional. Not bad by any means but certainly not the best I've ever experienced. The Axi2050's engineering do get it to the upper treble octave... sort of...But make no mistake it takes a LARGE dollop of EQ to get there. With that said, what I do find exceptional is the midrange and lower treble quality. My hearing isn't what it used to be and attenuates fast beyond 15kHz these days. I can still hear 16kHz with test tones but it takes appreciable level. With that said, I put much more weight on the midband performance over the upper treble, so for me the tradeoff is worthwhile. Take that FWIW. YMMV, etc...

 

I originally intended to buy the Radian 950Be drivers but at the time these were much cheaper and the new thing so I went with the Celestion's. Curiosity about those may eventually get the best of me. 

 

 

These drivers are rugged and do seem to give more useful low end extension than most other 2" format cd's. It may be a bit over hyped depending on what you read and the application. For domestic use, where it'll never see more than a couple volts on peaks, it can run very low without any risk. For large format / HO use I'd not cross it lower than 500Hz. For my situation and type of use, which is somewhere smack in between light domestic use and heavy duty reinforcement, I wouldn't run it lower than 350-400Hz on the 402 to keep diaphragm excursion and THD in check. 

[KT88]

21 hours ago, JeffAnderlite said:

Hey Chris,

 

I am about to inherit some newer 1 year old jubilees with Celestion Axi2050 drivers. I will have parasound p6 pre and a23+ for top with 500wpc peachtree amp500 for the bottom. I am getting these because my brother who had the jubes didn't want to deal with setting them up. I on the other hand am excited and willing to mess with the xilica to get it dialed in. I have never used xilica or REW but i'm pretty handy so i'm sure ill be competent once i start diving into it.  Since we put the new drivers in and i will be setting them up for the first time at my house in about 2-3 weeks i am wondering if you would be willing to send me your settings that you use with these drivers and help me with some best practices for dialing them in with my amps, gains, REW etc. 

I know you're the maestro around here with this stuff so learning from you would mean a lot and i'm sure would also help me get where i'm trying to go infinitely faster!

 

My name is Jeff Anderlite by the way. I read all these forums and love it! Please email if you would be willing to help me out! anderlitej@gmail.com

 

Thanks so much!

Jeff

Jeff, if I am not wrong the settings Chris is using for the Celestion/K402 are directly in the post above yours.

[KT88]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:06 PM, Chris A said:

Did you ever use the PEQ settings that I posted?  Note that there is ~22 dB of overall EQ that's required:

 

 

Chris

Chris, what slope are you using, I can't find it in the picture, 24 or 48 dB?

Regarding the setting of your TAD4002/K402 that you posted on page 1 of this thread, are your settings causally based on Roy's settings or did you determine them from scratch? Are these settings (there are more PEQs than Roy's) exactly tuned to your living room or are they of a general nature? Thanks, Heinz.