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Subwoofers and Heresys IVs


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Just when I thought I didn’t need subs with the Heresy IVs, my friend brought over two REL t5i that I got to audition I my room in stereo mode, and I must say, I really enjoyed listening to it.   My memory of the short audition, and I seem to recall that the bass felt like it emanated from the floor which made sense to me. that they were down firing woofers... and offered really cool kick drum shake and impact and were super fun to listen to.   They offered a dimension to the music I truly enjoyed.  So I thought I might dive back into the subwoofer world and went out and got me a REL t9i to borrow from the audio shop (stereos unlimited in San Diego-HIGHLY RECOMENEDED). It was recommended for my room size (450 sft) that I go with a larger sub. But they only had one at the time so I borrowed it and    Set that up and it sounded great! Room filling, but just didn’t seem as musical as a dual sub setup in stereo, so I returned it and landed on a pair of dual smaller t7i they had in stock (these have the front firing woofer with a passive down firing woofer).  Back into to my room.  However for whatever reason, the left sub seems to offer little impact to the room and most of the bass seems presented by the right sub.  It’s almost as if the left sub offers half the power.  The right sub is charged from the corner, and the left sub is 1/3 along the wall from a stair case adjacent to the speaker (I’m sure the corner on the right helps with  charging the room but no real corner on the left.). I am pretty sure I did get the phasing set with the two subs.   I’m curious to know if there may be a better way to setup stereo subs and to see what others are doing out there and to see if any others experience an unbalancing of sorts.  My room may be difficult to setup being its pretty reflective in here (tile with no sound treatments). Wondering if the two subs may actually be canceling each other out partially.  My delema is wondering if I’m missing something on the setup, and wondering if the left sub is actually moot.  I do like the sound of the t7s as they do feel like they fill the “air” of the room more, but it’s the balancing that’s got me curious.  How are others addressing this?  Through volume levels or positioning?  Right now the subs are located on the outside of the speakers running in two channels through the speaker terminals of a primaluna Evo 400 integrated amp. 
 

The RELs really do offer a nice tone to the bottom end of the music that I’ve been enjoying so I’m glad to have made the dive back into subs. I just want to do it right. 
 

Thanks in advance.

Mirko
 

 

Edited by Mirko
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You didn't have this problem when your friend brought over his dual subs? If you did, then it's a room problem.

 

If your new subs are in the same location, they should sound the same.

Did you try switching your subs, left to right, to see if the problem follows the subwoofer? That would be a clue as to confirming whether it's the location of the left sub, and the room configuration, which cause the reduced output.

 

Obviously, the fact the left sub does not have the same, defined corner as the right sub is the likely cause of the reduced left output. If it's that simple, I see no reason why you can't just increase the level of the left sub until the two subs' output levels are equal.

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Center front and center rear is the best way for the room, with your head smack in the center, if possible. End of problems...............but you probably won't do it because you will get all kinds of other "opinions" here that are different from the applied science by Todd Welti of JBL reasearch.

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5 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Center front and center rear is the best way for the room, with your head smack in the center, if possible. End of problems...............but you probably won't do it because you will get all kinds of other "opinions" here that are different from the applied science by Todd Welti of JBL reasearch.

Thanks I’ll try this but my room just won’t allow this, however I’m gonna have some fun experimenting with this.  

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Perhaps try turning the right sub off and experiment with the left sub’s phase and volume until it sounds better to you. And the turn the right sub back on and see how it sounds.

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Last time I experimented with moving a sub around I measured 6 dB more SPL from the corner then from a position on the wall, which I think is what the math says to expect.  So that may explain the delta.  Even one sub is sometimes hard to integrate, well bass is hard to get right period.  Two subs will require some experimentation. I’ve tried and never gotten two subs to sound better than one, unless maybe both were one the front wall inside the mains, and even that was a maybe.  Good luck experimenting. Curious, what track(s) are you listening to to judge your bass?

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Mirko, I remember when we visited the music shop. One of the things I did when going into the various listening rooms is I clapped my hands in each room. What I noticed is that the sound dampened right away. No echo in the rooms. At home in my upstairs listening room, the exact same thing happens where it dampens right away. In your room though there’s an immediate echo if you clap your hands. My upstairs has slanted walls everywhere and acoustically I like it way more compared to my downstairs rectangle room. No contest. 
 

Right now I’m using just one REL T5i between the speakers under the TV stand where it helps increase the bass but only because I’m just playing jazz about 65db average at night when everyone’s trying to do other things in the house. The other one is in the other listening room. When my wife  is gone though, I definitely prefer both T5i’s one behind each Heresy II when playing full orchestra or some rock. Behind each speaker, the walls are angled so the bass does not reverberate off the walls as much but more so the floor. This wall or lack of wall which is slanted is why I hardly heard a difference in bass between the Heresy II and IV unless turned up louder just on their own and obviously they don’t fire down. 
 

But when I use both T5i’s  firing down upstairs behind each Heresy, the music is absolutely breathtaking! Fast, tight, in phase and perfectly controlled. Two in my room is definitely better but in your room I really think you need some room treatment because that one right corner has too much echo or reverberating and the left has much less. If you dampen the right side of the room more, I really believe you will appreciate having both subs. Try not to let the second REL go till we experiment more. I believe the real issue is the acoustics of the room, not the subs. It absolutely amazes me how the acoustics of a room can affect sound so dramatically. 
 

It’s just like telescopes. Play all the aperture and quality of optics you want but unless you have a good environment to observe or image from, there’s a point of diminishing returns. And btw you’re definitely a better audio listener than I am and I can only go based on what these experience have shown me. Let’s experiment. 

Edited by rankaudio
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Ok. I’ll admit; I’m a bit of a knucklehead on this one.  I just recalled that I’m running the two subs in stereo mode and the impression I got may have very well been due to sound mix.  Meaning; less bass in the recording in the left channel.  DOH!!! Sure enough, as I’m listening to sorcerer, the bass is in the left channel and the stereo imaging is perfect even for the low end bass.  So foregive me, but clearly I was thinking too much on this one.  Imagine someone trying to equalize a right sub when there’s no bass mixed in the right channel.  Lol.  Oops.   Had I run the two subs in monoaural mode then this would have been an issue, but it’s not. Sorry;  first time in my life using two subwoofers.  I appreciate everybody’s feedback. Thx 🤞🏼

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On 3/8/2021 at 2:18 AM, Mirko said:

Just when I thought I didn’t need subs with the Heresy IVs, my friend brought over two REL t5i that I got to audition I my room in stereo mode, and I must say, I really enjoyed listening to it.   My memory of the short audition, and I seem to recall that the bass felt like it emanated from the floor which made sense to me. that they were down firing woofers... and offered really cool kick drum shake and impact and were super fun to listen to.   They offered a dimension to the music I truly enjoyed.  So I thought I might dive back into the subwoofer world and went out and got me a REL t9i to borrow from the audio shop (stereos unlimited in San Diego-HIGHLY RECOMENEDED). It was recommended for my room size (450 sft) that I go with a larger sub. But they only had one at the time so I borrowed it and    Set that up and it sounded great! Room filling, but just didn’t seem as musical as a dual sub setup in stereo, so I returned it and landed on a pair of dual smaller t7i they had in stock (these have the front firing woofer with a passive down firing woofer).  Back into to my room.  However for whatever reason, the left sub seems to offer little impact to the room and most of the bass seems presented by the right sub.  It’s almost as if the left sub offers half the power.  The right sub is charged from the corner, and the left sub is 1/3 along the wall from a stair case adjacent to the speaker (I’m sure the corner on the right helps with  charging the room but no real corner on the left.). I am pretty sure I did get the phasing set with the two subs.   I’m curious to know if there may be a better way to setup stereo subs and to see what others are doing out there and to see if any others experience an unbalancing of sorts.  My room may be difficult to setup being its pretty reflective in here (tile with no sound treatments). Wondering if the two subs may actually be canceling each other out partially.  My delema is wondering if I’m missing something on the setup, and wondering if the left sub is actually moot.  I do like the sound of the t7s as they do feel like they fill the “air” of the room more, but it’s the balancing that’s got me curious.  How are others addressing this?  Through volume levels or positioning?  Right now the subs are located on the outside of the speakers running in two channels through the speaker terminals of a primaluna Evo 400 integrated amp. 
 

The RELs really do offer a nice tone to the bottom end of the music that I’ve been enjoying so I’m glad to have made the dive back into subs. I just want to do it right. 
 

Thanks in advance.

Mirko
 

 

Hi Mirko, I also live in San Diego ( Jamul ); use Heresy IV from a Primaluna integrated Evo 100, and am looking for some subwoofers to help with my classical symphonies. I’ve pretty much decided on either one of the T7’s or two of the T’5’s. My room is 250-300 ft with carpeting, so I worry how the t5 will work with the carpet. My feeling is that the t7 would have a crisper bass, but two would be outside my emotional spending limit. Anyway if you get a chance drop me a note share your advice. Nice to see the rain for a change.....Max

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