Jump to content

Cornwall and solid states


Recommended Posts

Hi - 

 

I have a chance to purchase some local Cornwall iiis which I’ve been looking for a while. I’m interested in the group’s opinions on two questions:
 

Will these work well with a Pioneer SX-1010 in the short-term until I get a tube amp?

 

Should I pay the extra $1,000 and get IVs versus a very nice custom set of iiis? Is the difference that significant?

 

This is first piece of a simple endgame setup of Cornwalls, MC275, C22 I hope to build over next three years. 

 

thanks 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can you audition both the III's and the IV's and decide if the extra $$$ is worth it to you?

 

I've heard the IIIs, but not the IV's.  But based on my impression of the III's and what I have heard and read about the IV's, I would get the IV's and not look back.  The Pioneer will be great for a while until you get the bug to do something different.  It's your money so it is real easy for me to say get the IV's.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Custom is probably the wrong word - they are the 70th anniversary model which are becoming very hard to find. 
 

The limited edition cabinets and covers are the only reason I’m thinking of going with the iiis vs waiting to get IVs.

 

it’s difficult trying to gauge how much better the IVs are than iii based on comments/reviews. Everyone loves the IVs but a lot people still love the iiis. 

Edited by Pearlybaker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have Corwnall III's and have not heard any cabinet resonances.  And I have excellent hearing and a very keen sense for musical nuances.

 

Go and listen to them yourself and make your own determination.  The Cornwall III's are fantastic speakers which (should this matter, probably shouldn't) had plenty of glowing reviews when they were introduced.   I wouldn't rely too much on what you read here about III vs. IV.  ..It's  predictable that whoever has the lastest generation of a speaker will claim HUGE improvement over the previous.  As if to suggest that Klipsch was an incompetent speaker company when they engineered the previous version, and suddenly got smart just in time to engineer the latest.  Ugh.

 

As for driving them...  ANY modern day amplifier/receiver/integrated will find the CW III's to be a very easy speaker to drive.  ..The wattage meters on my Integrated rarely exceed 5 watts - and at that level is beyond loud enough to cause hearing damage.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never said it was a "huge" improvement. I only cited the feedback I have read. The III is the only version of the CW I haven't heard. It may sound fine, but for another grand, I'd opt for the newer version.

 

And yes, any amp will drive them. But the question must be, do you want sound or do you want music?

 

Shakey

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Shakeydeal said:

I never said it was a "huge" improvement. I only cited the feedback I have read. The III is the only version of the CW I haven't heard. It may sound fine, but for another grand, I'd opt for the newer version.

 

And yes, any amp will drive them. But the question must be, do you want sound or do you want music?

 

Shakey

 

 

 

Amps that are engineered to be linear (most are - except for boutique tube amps) will sound pretty much the same.  Sound vs Music?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

I’ve seen many negative comments about the IIIs. I’ve yet to see even one about the IVs.

 

 

 

You will just as soon as the Cornwall V's are announced.  ..So it goes in audio.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Amps that are engineered to be linear (most are - except for boutique tube amps) will sound pretty much the same.  Sound vs Music?

 

 

If  you actually bothered to listen, you would know this is incorrect.

 

BTW, sound is what comes out of the speakers with a cheap receiver. Music is what comes out of the speaker with a well designed, high quality amplifier.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

You will just as soon as the Cornwall V's are announced.  ..So it goes in audio.  

So does that mean that the Cornwall IVs do not sound better than the Cornwall iiis? I don’t understand why people that own the previous versions of a speaker seem offended if anyone buys a newer version and wants to think their previous version was the best ever. I had the original Forte 1s and they sounded good but I would be lying if I said the Forte IVs do not sound much better to my ears. I have zero doubt that the Forte Vs might sound much better than the Forte IVs.

 

About amps? My Primaluna Evo 400 sounds totally different than the amp in my Yamaha AVR and totally different than my hybrid McIntosh ma252. Not claiming one is better but they clearly do not sound exactly the same.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Not claiming one is better but they clearly do not sound exactly the same.

Quote

 

 

Of course they don't. Not sure how anyone can say that any two amps (unless they are the same brand and model) sound the same. Strikes me as lazy listening.

 

Shakey

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Pearlybaker said:

Custom is probably the wrong word - they are the 70th anniversary model which are becoming very hard to find. 
 

The limited edition cabinets and covers are the only reason I’m thinking of going with the iiis vs waiting to get IVs.

 

it’s difficult trying to gauge how much better the IVs are than iii based on comments/reviews. Everyone loves the IVs but a lot people still love the iiis. 

See you have been doing your research...cool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Fido said:

So does that mean that the Cornwall IVs do not sound better than the Cornwall iiis? I don’t understand why people that own the previous versions of a speaker seem offended if anyone buys a newer version and wants to think their previous version was the best ever. I had the original Forte 1s and they sounded good but I would be lying if I said the Forte IVs do not sound much better to my ears. I have zero doubt that the Forte Vs might sound much better than the Forte IVs.

 

About amps? My Primaluna Evo 400 sounds totally different than the amp in my Yamaha AVR and totally different than my hybrid McIntosh ma252. Not claiming one is better but they clearly do not sound exactly the same.


I am saying that there is this inclination - on the part of the manufacture and owners - to exaggerate the significance of differences between a new and previous generation of speaker. My assertion is that the differences are in truth very small - so small that they may not even be discernible  when blinded .  This is especially true nowadays when there has not really been any new advancements in speaker technology. Computers and anechoic Chambers were available and in use during the development of all of Klipsch’s speakers of the last several decades.  So too were the foundational engineering concepts.  I might be inclined to believe that the differences between a Cornwall I and a Cornwall IV are quite  audible, but I am disinclined to believe that they are between III and IV.  Klipsch needs to refresh their products – nothing wrong with that. And nothing wrong with identifying improvements. That is marketing. But whether they are truly audible or not is a different matter.

 

And no, I don’t believe your Yamaha AVR sounds different from your McIntosh.  I trust you when you say you believe they do! But that doesn’t mean in actual fact that you could tell differences when blinded..  I have a McIntosh MA6600 Integrated amp. And it sounds no different when driving my Cornwall IIIs than my Onkyo  AVR.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Quote

And no, I don’t believe your Yamaha AVR sounds different from your McIntosh.  I trust you when you say you believe they do! But that doesn’t mean in actual fact that you could tell differences when blinded

 

 

Oh brother.......

 

 

image.jpeg.b929bdcb179a14ffa77ca8f85a852874.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Entering the fray here (maybe foolishly). I think it is prudent to acknowledge the limits of knowing and ability to make definitive casual claims. Making a causal claim (which in my mind is required before saying x is better than y) is exceedingly difficult. Of course, we are entitled to our preferences, but we should be clear the limits of what a preference denotes. The task of saying x is better than y becomes even more difficult when you are on the bleeding age of the state of the art, which for the most part, is where we all live in this hobby/forum. 

 

Almost all of academia (both the hard and social sciences) is focused on research design and methodologies that allows the testing/validation of causal claims. I think it is also helpful to remember the study of sound and how it is perceived  is called psychoacoustics. The point being, psychology plays such an important role when it comes to human perception. Concepts such as confirmation basis, placebo effect, endowment effect, among others are real and cloud our ability to make casual claims, or in other words, to say a Klipsch Cornwall III does not sound as good as a Klipsch Cornwall IV. To even make that argument, we would have to define and all agree on what does "sound better" even mean. A difficult task indeed. 

 

Don't get me wrong, when I can, I plan to upgrade my Forte III speakers to the latest Cornwall and I am sure I will "perceive" a noticeable difference -- but I want to be clear about, I would not be able to make the claim the Cornwall sounds "better" than than the Forte -- only that I prefer it. To say x sounds better than y, again, we would need to define what "better" means and carefully articulate what dimension of "better" we are describing and comparing (I think sometimes what we really mean, x sounds different than y and I prefer that difference). Then we could test those claims by designing and administering an experiment, including conducting  a sufficient number of trails that rise to the level of statistical significance (n>30 at least), and then see what the data shows to see if our claims are indeed valid. 

 

I am not about that. This is a hobby for me and I listen for pleasure and enjoyment. I do, however, think it is helpful to bring some rationality to the conversation, particularly when making claims of superiority.   

 

On the amplifier front, all the above applies. While I will agree you will notice the difference between speakers (room/speaker interaction also plays a huge role which I will not address) one is less likely to notice a difference between amplifiers if they are properly compared using a rigorous and scientific methodology. Why? Almost any modern amplifier (and even a lot of vintage amplifiers) are designed to specifications that beyond the limits of human audibility. Think S/N ratio, distortion %, and other design characteristics. The same holds true for digital audio. As we all know, humans perceive louder as better, and it is important that is accounted for when making comparisons. For example, does a more powerful amplifier allow for greater dynamic range/headroom and the perceived increase in dynamics (louder) is the reason we think amplifier x sounds better than amplifier y? 

 

I will note, I have a McIntosh tube amp and solid state preamp. They cost multiples of  electronics that are equally technical competent. Why do I have them then? Is it irrational on my part? That would be the case if I truly believed is was purely for sonic reasons and not those of aesthetics, build quality, prestige, and in my case also nostalgia (for the tube amp anyways). All of these reasons also effect my perception of sound, and I probably believe my McIntosh gear does sound better (when in reality, I probably can't tell the difference). The important point though is, they make me happy -- which is beyond the limit of science (at least in my view) and that to me is what really matters. 

 

Have I tested this theory? No. Again, not a scientist and I don't enjoy these elements of the hobby (in part because I am not capable of conducting experiments with the necessary rigor to derive beneficial knowledge/wisdom) -- I am in it to enjoy the music. But, I am fully aware of the power of my mind and its ability to influence my perception limiting my ability to make causal claims and/or definitive judgements of superiority (and folks have won noble prizes proving this is in fact the case).

 

To the OP, I doubt you can go wrong either way. At the end of the day, both speakers are likely better than 99% of all other speakers out there. I would spring for the Cornwall IV, but I am sure the Cornwall III is also great. We all have tradeoffs to negotiate and only you can decide what value judgements you will make to help you navigate those tradeoffs. I would also agree, listening is still valuable -- the more high quality information (read first hand) you can gather when weighing a decision is always helpful! 

 

Anyways, let's all keep having fun, enjoy the tunes, and when the fancy strikes us -- piss off the neighbors. 

 

 

Edited by mdm7eb
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...