What is the crossover frequence for bass in AL-3

[ricktate]

You can get that transformer from Bob.  Autotransformers | Critesspeakers.com

[ricktate]

1 hour ago, SpeedLimit said:

I can try to cut my tweeter at 4,5 kHz with a 24 dB slope

I think the K77 will not go that low, You will have to get the tweeter from Bob.

[SpeedLimit]

I can t buy anything from the USA.

When i will buy something, the final cost is 4 times more than the selling price.

I wanted to buy 2 k-401 horns but finally it what so expensive that i have build my horns with wood.

It will be thé same with crites speakers.

I have asked him for 2 ct125.

[OO1]

37 minutes ago, SpeedLimit said:

ct125.

the  DE 10 is superior to the CT125 -

[SpeedLimit]

Yes RandyH000

 

i have bought the DE10 because you said me these was fine, and they are fine. I have also bought the de120 in case if the de10 were not good.

[SpeedLimit]

1 hour ago, mustang_flht said:

You can try to simulate your network with this software, it is very efficient 👍

 

https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/Software.html

 

 

😎

I have looked this software, even if it is late on my lost island now, i have nothing understand ..  i will have a look tomorrow morning .. perhaps, it will be more clear for me .. perhaps, but i have doubts

[ClaudeJ1]

2 hours ago, mboxler said:

I thought the LS5 and AK6 crossed at 4500Hz, around the natural cutoff of the pd-5vh.

Every K-55 Atlas driver I ever curved, including the ones with Solder Terminals, tanked at 6 Khz. Crossing at 4500 means the tweeter creates wider dispersion at those frequencies on up where it takes over. 

[mboxler]

10 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Every K-55 Atlas driver I ever curved, including the ones with Solder Terminals, tanked at 6 Khz. Crossing at 4500 means the tweeter creates wider dispersion at those frequencies on up where it takes over. 

 After further research...

 

Plane Wave Freq. Response 110Hz - 4.1kHz (±5dB)

 

But I've read that in a K-400 it does go up to 6KHz.

 

Not that I know what plane wave frequency response is.🥺 
 

[mustang_flht]

2 hours ago, SpeedLimit said:

I have looked this software, even if it is late on my lost island now, i have nothing understand ..  i will have a look tomorrow morning .. perhaps, it will be more clear for me .. perhaps, but i have doubts

 

I could explain a little to you 😜

 

I simulated your filter, there are holes and bumps. For something flatter, here's what you might try first if you have capacitors and resistors. 

 

Just change the 136µF capacitor by one of 82µF, 5.6µF by one 3.9µF (or 4UF : 2+2µF for example) on DE10 and the resistors of the Lpad on PD5VH and DE10.

 

CAUTION: respect the + and - phases of the diagram

 

CAUTION 2 : I did all the simulation with PD5VH, that is to say the 16ohm version and around 110db: it is your version, confirm me SpeedLimit

 

CAUTION 3: in my simulation I crossed PD5VH and DE10 at 3800 or 4000Hz. Tell me if you want to cross higher or lower: 3500, 4500, 5000, 5500 ... I will do a simulation again with your new value. (edit : But I believe PD5VH does not go higher than 4100Hz)

 

CAUTION 4: The new Lpad are no longer at 16ohm or 8ohm it is voluntary and adapted to the values of the components in place

 

CAUTION  5: I did this simulation for a mono amplification, for multiamplification we can let the compression work higher in db, but you have to redo everything and have the level adjustment on the amplifiers

 

 

Then you tell us if you like it, or if you still have to change something: more treble, more or less midrange, etc.

 

 

 

 

Version 2: I kept the 136µF capacitor on the 15C and I went down a little towards 330Hz for the connection of the PD55 with 20µF or 18µF if you prefer at listen. And then I put a little more treble to see if you like it better.

 

 

If you want even more treble, replace 6.8 ohm in // by 8.2 or 10 ohm: to listen

 

[billybob]

2 hours ago, ricktate said:

I think the K77 will not go that low, You will have to get the tweeter from Bob.

You know that Bob passed recently. Michael is continuing the business.

[SpeedLimit]

thank you mustang_flht

 

on my diagram, yes, the B&C is -4dB and the Atlas is -7dB. the diagram is wrong.

 

my Atlas sound have been bought last year, and seem to be the 110 dB models ( and yes really in 16 ohms ).

 

i have enough high frequencie sound level.

i suppose that the mid is not correctly crossed with the bass and with the tweeter.  Perhaps also too low sound level.

 

I ask me myself, perhaps the Peavey FH-1 bass bin has more sound pressure level than the originalLa Scala bass bin. And perhaps, in that case, should i less reduce the power of the mid and high drivers ..

 

I will try to find the capacitors to make the change you tell me. On my little island, it is very hard to find electronics parts (i mean good electronic parts) and here, the sellers only propose finished crossovers for professionnal sound (sono).

 

Thank you very very much mustang_flht, i will try what you said.

 

ps: yes i have seen that the pd-5vh goes up to 4100 Hz.

pps: i do not know the cut off frequencies of the original AL-3 klipsch crossover. I supposed, it wa about 400 Hz and 4500 Hz.

[SpeedLimit]

billybob,

yes i have read it on this forum. RIP Bob.

 

mustang_flht :

my drivers are these :

- Eminence Kappa 15C : 4 ohms

- Atlas Sound PD-5VH : 16 ohms

- B&C DE10  : 8 ohms

 

I have also diaphragm of DE10 in 16 ohms that fit into the driver, and also have bought DE120 (8 and 16 ohms diaphragm).

i didn't find at a good price a pair of k77 tweeters (EV T35 neither in 8 or 16 ohms)

 

one more questions :

 

what is the cutoff on the diagram with 3 OR 2,7 µF for the tweeter, and how much reduce with 2,2 Ohms serial and 6,8 ohms parallel ?

 

same question with the 15 ohms and 6,8 ohms on the atlas sound ?

 

to resume, on the 2 diagrams you calculate for me, could you explain mewhat are the cut frequencies and the attenuation ?

none for the woofer, it is normal .. but for the other drivers.

 

I read somewhere that the impedance of the pd-5vh is something like 13 ohms at the cut off frequence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SpeedLimit]

Many many thanks for all people who help me

[mustang_flht]

Hi @SpeedLimit

 

I have read all your questions and I will answer them this morning.

My feedback in DIY made me adopt this software which makes it possible to obtain and simulate a good result as quickly as possible, which was not the case with other software. Of course it is about the electrical modeling, after it is necessary to adjust, to the measurements if possible and especially to the listening. If you don't take measurements: you will have to tell me: what you hear and where you want me to modify: more midrange, more treble, months of presence on the 2000/5000 tape: often what gives a "hard" sound, etc ...

If you have difficulty finding components on your island: the best is perhaps to keep the capacitor of 136µF and to play on the capacitor of the PD5, it will be just 2, 4 or 6 µF to add or remove. The best is to buy a few small capacitors and a few resistors to make couples or triplets: this will save you from buying tons of components and will allow you to do a lot of tests.

Afterwards, we agree that eventually we will have to buy capacitors and coils to change the connection to around 450Hz, as Klipsch does with its Horn K400.

I will try to copy the theoretical curves of the software to you: you will be able to visualize your current curve and what we are going to try to do: ok?

 

 

En Francais

Salut SpeedLimit

J'ai lu toute tes questions et je vais y répondre ce matin. 

Mon retour d'expérience en DIY m'a fait adopter ce logiciel qui permet d'obtenir et de simuler le plus rapidement un bon résultat, ce qui n'était pas le cas d'autre logiciel. Bien entendu il s'agit de la modélisation électrique, après il faut ajuster, aux mesures si possible et à surtout l'écoute. Si tu ne fais pas de mesures : il faudra que tu me dises : ce que tu entends et là où tu veux que je modifie : plus de médium, plus d'aigu, mois de présence sur la bande 2000/5000 : souvent ce qui donne un son "dur", etc...

Si tu as des difficultés à trouver des composants sur ton île : le mieux est peut-être de conserver le condensateur de 136µF et de jouer sur le condensateur de la PD5, ce sera juste 2, 4 ou 6 µF à rajouter ou à enlever. Le mieux est d'acheter quelques petits condensateurs et quelques résistances pour faire des couples ou des triplettes : ce qui t'éviteras d'acheter des tonnes de composants et te permettras de faire de nombreux tests.

Après, on est bien d'accord qu'à terme il faudra acheter des condensateurs et/ou selfs pour modifier le raccordement à environ 450Hz, comme le fait Klipsch par rapport à son Horn K400.

Je vais essayer de te copier les courbes théoriques du logiciel : tu pourras visualiser ta courbe actuelle et ce que nous allons essayer de faire : ok ?

[SpeedLimit]

ok mustang_flht

 

i have REW and a umik-1 but alone on my island, i have some difficulties to know how this software works.

So we can say, i have nothing to make sound measures.

 

i will first reduce the attenuation of the atlas sound.

 

many months ago, i had a lot of inductance and capacitors but i thought that i will never more make diy speakers .. i was wrong.

i have sold them for a little little money .. and now they are missing.

 

i try to find the resistors to reduce the attenuation of the meddles and i come back to you

 

[mustang_flht]

As a preamble, for this project I started from the postulation that SpeedLimit will have to confirm my listening: for example I took 99db for the Kappa 15C + 3db of gain for the Peavy load and / or La Scala: therefore 102db: I will have to tell me if the alignment of the acute midrange is suitable for listening.

 

 

The current SpeedLimit filter with 102db in the bass

 

My modification : The filter with 102db in the bass, still 4mH and 136µF in filtering and my alignment of the PD5VH: with 18µF and 15 and 6.8ohm

 

Note: the small rise in the treble is voluntary, if it does not please I can reduce

 

 

It's already a better base to work on, isn't it? 😜

[mustang_flht]

I will answer here on the connection frequencies and on the reductions in db and the new impedences seen by the network

 

On PD5VH with 18µF (I remind you that to make 18µF, it suffices to add in // 4µF to the existing 14µF) and 15 in series and 6.8ohm in //

- connection frequency at -6db with 4mH and 136µF = ~ 330Hz
- reduction of 12.4db and impedence of 19.8ohm seen by the network for theoretical 16ohm.

On DE10 with 3µF and 2.2 in series and 6.8ohm in //

- connection frequency at -6db with PD5VH = ~ 4000Hz
- reduction of 4.1db and impedence of 5.9ohm seen by the network for theoretical 8ohm.

 

 

Be careful, this remains theoretical, there may be variations linked to the actual impedance curves (I could discuss more in detail later) and also linked to the response curves of the speakers.

 

That's why SpeedLimit needs to tell me what he likes and what bothers him, and then we'll adjust. Already the strong reduction in PD5VH risks disrupting his listening at the start, he will have to listen calmly, let his ear and his brain get used to it and tell me if he wants us to go back up. little or not the level of the PD5VH.

 

Ditto, same approach for the tweeter

 

OKAY ?

[SpeedLimit]

ok ..

 

i first have put a 4,7 µF parallel to the 14µF. It is a little bit more than you said to me .. 14 + 4,7 = 18,7. I could put 3,3 µF to adjust

just making that, the meddle seem to be a little better but not enough level.

 

now i will try to change the resistors 15 ohms and 6,8 ohms .. if you think it will give me more level in the meddles

 

[SpeedLimit]

and i do not want a high level tweeter .. not more than the meddles

[SpeedLimit]

the atlas sound has a impedance of something like 13 ohms at the cutoff frequence