In which order do you apply room correction options?

[alanhuth]

I am now at the point where I want to try some equalization, timing, etc. My system is 2.1 (KLF-30 and 3 subwoofers). My DAC/preamp is a MiniDSP SHD, so I can theoretically do all of the DSP filtering these tools offer. SHD also includes DIRAC. What is the best sequence to apply these tools: e.g. B, A, D, C, etc.?

 

A. Front Speaker placement, with help from "Rational Speaker Placement" (Sumiko Method)

B. Multi-Sub Optimizer (MSO)

C. DIRAC

D. Sub placement - crawl method or ??

E. REW - frequency response filtering

F. REW - timing and phase adjustments

G. Room treatment

 

Thanks

Edited March 14, 2021 by alanhuth

[garyrc]

A G D B C E F ?  OR Don't use E & F ?????

[alanhuth]

yes, I’m really confused about the interaction between Dirac and REW.  Are they complementary, redundant, or what?

 

[veloceleste]

.

[Khornukopia]

15 hours ago, alanhuth said:

What is the best sequence to apply these tools: e.g. B, A, D, C, etc.?

 

A. Front Speaker placement, with help from "Rational Speaker Placement" (Sumiko Method)

B. Multi-Sub Optimizer (MSO)

C. DIRAC

D. Sub placement - crawl method or ??

E. REW - frequency response filtering

F. REW - timing and phase adjustments

G. Room treatment

 

The best systematic sequence from your list might be, G A D B F E C, but some home enthusiasts perform G after doing the others over and over.

 

[alanhuth]

Thanks everybody! 

 

I posted this inquiry on other sites.  Some feedback on the other sites was excellent, but none but here actually put the options in specific order, as you did.  Thanks.  

 

The (G) room treatment option, is of limited influence in my situation, as I am merely a paying guest in my house, with restricted access.

[Khornukopia]

9 minutes ago, alanhuth said:

The (G) room treatment option, is of limited influence in my situation, as I am merely a paying guest in my house, with restricted access.

 

Books and art objects, etc. on a shelf can be helpful. Framed pictures cause some diffusion. Furniture and drapery are also effective.

[alanhuth]

I can tell anybody who’s interested that the Rational Speaker Placement approach worked really well for me.  I only had about a foot or so of room to move around in, in only one direction, so my options were extremely limited, but this approach made a huge difference.  I got a center image, not super focused but recognizable, and the speakers do disappear on some recordings.  Soundstage is wider than the speakers, usually, and there is some depth and height noticeable, but not always.  All this in a very difficult room with a protruding fireplace between the speakers.  

[gnarly]

On 3/13/2021 at 8:44 PM, alanhuth said:

I am now at the point where I want to try some equalization, timing, etc. My system is 2.1 (KLF-30 and 3 subwoofers). My DAC/preamp is a MiniDSP SHD, so I can theoretically do all of the DSP filtering these tools offer. SHD also includes DIRAC. What is the best sequence to apply these tools: e.g. B, A, D, C, etc.?

 

A. Front Speaker placement, with help from "Rational Speaker Placement" (Sumiko Method)

B. Multi-Sub Optimizer (MSO)

C. DIRAC

D. Sub placement - crawl method or ??

E. REW - frequency response filtering

F. REW - timing and phase adjustments

G. Room treatment

 

Thanks

 

 

My 2c...

G. Use omni source room excitation if available, and level RT 60 across the spectrum with acoustic treatments as best as possible.

A. Figure out Front speaker placement.  I like the reciprocity method. Put a Front speaker at listening position, and move mic around in possible speaker locations to find smoothest response.

G. With Front speaker placement determined, use room treatments to diminish early reflections.

A. remeasure to see if early reflection treatments and an even RT 60 hold up well , or beg slightly different speaker placements/acoustic treatments.

D. Use reciprocity method for finding primary sub placements.

B. MSO if desired, again with reciprocity technique.

 

E, F, .. depends on how far you want to go.

Personally, I like doing E&F independent of the room...ie, as anechoic as possible.

And with FIR to achieve both flat mag and phase.

 

C. not for me. Too much correction to too narrow a location.

[alanhuth]

Thanks, Gnarly.  I like your reciprocity method idea.  Suppose I find a perfect spot for the microphone - how does that translate back to speaker position?  Visualizing me doing it makes me want to take a nap.  But I’m sure it’s worth the effort if done properly.  

[gnarly]

Hi again Alanhuth,

More 2c on reciprocity....   

I probably should have only mentioned it as a technique for sub placement.

 

It works for me, but my main speakers have more directional control than most, and I can pretty much point them at listening position anywhere i want to put them, and get very good response from midrange up. So i use reciprocity to find where the main speakers works best, only in the upper bass range, say 100Hz to maybe as high as 300Hz.

 

For subs, I think it totally works for anyone, who has the flexibility to put the subs where they want. (8 out of 10 times, corners have been hard to beat ime)

The best mic position translates back to speaker position,  as simply the place where you want the speakers acoustic centers to be.

Which means which particular drivers in the speaker, which frequency range, you are using the reciprocity technique for.

For subs, it's obvious, for main speakers, its the woofers or maybe low-mids.

 

The hardest part in all this, is having a real time measurement program, where you can see the screen as you move the mic around.

Solve that, and it's a heck of a lot easier to move a mic around than move speakers around !

 

The easiest way would be with an RTA, like REW's, as they are real time.  They give a blended room & speaker response, albeit at the expense of ignoring the time domain.

Due to RTA's ignoring the time domain, and circling  back to your original question about sequence,  my very first steps with any speaker are your E&F....tuning frequency response, phase, and timing.

 

I try to do this in as quasi-anechoic setup as possible (which means outdoors off an elevated deck for mains, and out on the driveway for subs. Lol).

That way, when i move the speakers into the room, I know it's all about room interaction, and am more comfortable with simply using an RTA then.

 

Hope i made some sense....

 

 

[alanhuth]

Thanks, Gnarly.  Wow.  This hobby has no end.  I feel like I’m in nursery school compared to your level of activity.  Thanks for the explanation.  

[gnarly]

Very welcome. 😃

Apologies if i went into overload zone...I've had speaker building/tuning as at least a half-time hobby, for about 6 years now.

30+ boxes of all kinds of designs......and counting !

[VDS]

In general REW seems to give some valuable information to help with “seeing” what your room is adding to the sound. Then REW can help you see what your treatments are doing.