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choqueiro

Setting up an Hifi system around the new Jubilees

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Hi. My name is Juan. I'm from Spain. Sorry for my horrible english...
 
It´s a pleasure to be on the Klipsch community. 
 
Many months searching webs, forums, shows, videos, "expert" opinions, "commercial" opinions, sellers with "interests", sellers "without any interest"... Hi-Fi world is a long trip,  a difficult trip with "shine" products and (at least) a five digit price... A jungle for rich men. A paradise for the new economies. Another "economic bubble"....
 
If you are a person like me, with little knowledge, it´s easy to be scared...
 
Why I finally finished here?? Because the Klipsch sound is something with no comparison. It´s curious hearing audiophiles with many years on this hobby, saying that the end of the trip are Klipsch speakers.
 
I'm looking to set up a hi-fi system. I'm using Qobuz streaming service (no CD´s and no vinyls). 
 
Some questions. Thanks in advance for all your recommendations:
 
1) I´m waiting to the debut this summer of the new Jubilees. What we can expect?? Its´s seems that they are going to be something special.
 
2) What is this device that appears on the promotional video of the news Jubilees??
 
image.thumb.png.669523e139071ef0cc2bfc31fd317f11.png
 
3) How we can describe the Klipsch sound?? Warmm?? I know that the presence of the sound (the sensation of being on the live concert) is something that only Klipsch can achieve. But, that it means that Klipsch sound is analytical??
 
4) Does anyone have the opportunity of hearing ATC SCM150 speakers or Tannoy Westminster Royal GR?? 
 
ATC SCM 150 LE - Incinte acustice hi-end de podea
 
Tannoy Autograph Mini
 
Do you think they are better than Klipsch (klipschorn AK6 for example)?? More musical??
 
5) I want a warm and musical sound so I think I must go with valve amplification. I´m hearing many good things from Toolshed amplifiers (they appear on the promotional pictures of heritage Klipsch speakers). What would  be the perfect combination no money object??
 
6) What would be the reccomendation for a DAC. I like so much the Border Patrol, but I don´t know if the hi-resolution files from Qobuz may be a problem. Does anyone knows if the Border Patrol is compatible (without downsampling) with high resolution files from Qobuz?? Any other devices recommendations?? I want something warm with an "ananalogical" sound. Also it must be the quietest as possible, as Klipsch speakers are very efficients (high sensitivity) and I don´t want noises during reproductions.
 
7) As I said before I´m not going to use CD´s or vinyls, only Qobuz via streaming, so i also I´m interested on buying a good streamer. Any recommendation?? My intention is to use my iPad as a remote control so a device compatible with this possibility would be nice. I´m also planning to use Roon software so Roon ready is welcome.
 
Thanks so much for all the information. Stay healthy.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Hi, welcome to the forum!

 

Your English is fine.

 

Roy Delgado  ... (Chief bonehead)  @Chief bonehead is the co-designer of the early Jubilees with Paul W. Klipsch, and took over the design work when Paul died (at 98 years old).  Roy designed the current Jubilee and, presumably the forthcoming new ones.

 

Chris A @Chris A is very knowledgeable about Jubilees (he has a pair), and the use of bi-amping and EQ  He wrote the following:An Unofficial KlipschJubilee Buyer's Guide

We'll have to see what people say about the new Jubilees, but I'm betting that they will be great, if you can afford them.  The present ones have received much praise.  

 

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Welcome!

 

Regarding #2:

 

It is a digital crossover to connect the amplifiers of your choice. You would need 4 amp channels, basically a stereo amp for each speaker's woofer and another for the tweeters.

 

This is a huge step up from the khorn.

 

Bruce

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Think his friends call him Roy.

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Welcome Juan, Don't worry about the language, since your English is much better than my Spanish. 

 

It looks like you are interested in the re-designed Jubilee which will get introduced via a special anniversary edition this Summer. What Marvel says is absolutely correct. 

The problem is that the current Jubilee owners are enjoying the "original" version. None of us have heard the new version which has a larger footprint, different crossover point, a horn loaded port, factory DSP crossover and fancy new driver on the horn. This is quite a change although there is universal agreement that the designer (Roy Delgado) certainly knows what he is doing. None of us are in doubt that it will be a great product. However, all of this will come at an increase in price, possibly a very large increase. 

 

In a word, the difference in sound between this kind of design and the rest of the world is that horn loading gives a "dynamic" sound. Percusives and onsets will have a life-like quality of unrestrained and effortless dynamics. I would not use the word "warm". It will not sound like the Tannoy you have pictured (there are not many of them in the US). A side benefit of the horn loading is that dispersion is controlled so the "rest of the room" (reflections) is less interactive on the sound. Another consequence of horn loading is efficiency. These do not require huge mounts of power (wattage). The flip side is that an amplifier with any background hiss or hum can be quite audible. 

 

BTW, if you are interested in the current version of the Jubilee, they can be obtained from either Paducah Home Theater (I think I have that correct) and from American Cinema Equipment. I don't know if they are set up for overseas deliveries. 

 

Good luck,

-Tom

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, choqueiro said:

1) I´m waiting to the debut this summer of the new Jubilees. What we can expect?? Its´s seems that they are going to be something special.

No one on this forum (short of being a Klipsch employee) knows the finished loudspeaker specifications (frequency response, crossover frequency, polar coverage vs. frequency, etc.), and the exact configuration of the DSP crossover box (i.e., SPL  response flatness, impulse/step response, etc.).  These things are specifications, not subjective listening testimonials, so even when these things are announced, it will still be up to actual listening sessions to hear what these amazing loudspeakers are capable of. 

 

Having said that, I bought my Jubilees over 13 years ago without first hearing them, based on the testimonials of the people on this forum.  It was the best decision that I've made in terms of sound reproduction. They are something special.

 

12 hours ago, choqueiro said:

2) What is this device that appears on the promotional video of the news Jubilees??

That's a DSP crossover box and probably with FIR filtering (SPL and phase response flattening).  The specifications of that box's capabilities haven't been announced yet, but I believe it is a design based on Klipsch's headphone DSP box.  You can look for those specifications to get an idea of what's likely going to be included.

 

12 hours ago, choqueiro said:

3) How we can describe the Klipsch sound?? Warmm?? I know that the presence of the sound (the sensation of being on the live concert) is something that only Klipsch can achieve. But, that it means that Klipsch sound is analytical??

Accurate, with a huge soundstage that's the size of the front of the listening room, extremely dynamic and balanced.  They don't sound like horns--but rather like the actual musicians are in the room with you (and in this particular case, this is not hype or hyperbole like you find in other forums or websites, videos, etc.--but rather based on several accounts of those that have heard them set up well).  "Analytical" isn't how I'd describe it--rather revealing of the recording and having astonishing clarity.  The better the recording, the better the sound, and the ability to reveal very fine-grained and minute differences in the sound.  If you've got a bad recording, it will not be disguised, but it also will sound better than the recording has sounded to you before, but with amazing depth and clarity--and engaging, like being there for a live performance.

 

12 hours ago, choqueiro said:

4) Does anyone have the opportunity of hearing ATC SCM150 speakers or Tannoy Westminster Royal GR?? 

The Tannoy, unfortunately, is basically a Euro system that isn't often encountered in North America.  I don't know anyone that has given a review of those loudspeakers, but the performance of them is likely very much like {point source, dynamic, etc.)--either like Danley Synergies (assuming the Tannoy has flat SPL and phase response) and the K-402-MEH. The Jubilees will provide a performance that exceeds existing loudspeakers, in my experience.  There's no easy way to say that.  The Jubilees will far exceed anything that you've likely heard before.

 

I've also not encountered the little ATC loudspeaker that you refer to.

 

12 hours ago, choqueiro said:

Do you think they are better than Klipsch (klipschorn AK6 for example)?? More musical??

Yes, definitely.  Much more "musical" and engaging.  The reality of performance for the best recordings is astounding--much better than your audio memory can likely retain and recall.

 

12 hours ago, choqueiro said:

5) I want a warm and musical sound so I think I must go with valve amplification. I´m hearing many good things from Toolshed amplifiers (they appear on the promotional pictures of heritage Klipsch speakers). What would  be the perfect combination no money object??

I've personally found that amplifiers make much less difference with Jubilees than other loudspeakers like Khorns, La Scalas, etc.  The reason why this is--is probably summed up in a word: accuracy (SPL and phase response, time alignment, polar directivity vs. frequency, etc.).  You will hear those differences in amplifiers, but in the case of the Jubilee, it doesn't need a particular amplifier to hide any deficiencies heard that originate in the loudspeaker.  (I hope that makes sense and translates well.)

 

12 hours ago, choqueiro said:

6) What would be the reccomendation for a DAC.

I think that this is very much a personal thing, and not so much something that is like "valve amplifiers". The Jubilees don't need a special DAC or other piece of upstream electronics gear to provide a performance that exceeds anything that you've heard before.

 

12 hours ago, choqueiro said:

7) As I said before I´m not going to use CD´s or vinyls, only Qobuz via streaming, so i also I´m interested on buying a good streamer. Any recommendation?? My intention is to use my iPad as a remote control so a device compatible with this possibility would be nice. I´m also planning to use Roon software so Roon ready is welcome.

You may find that the Jubilees are quite revealing of the fidelity limitations of streamed music--even lossless streamed.  Higher bit rate/bit depth recordings will sound better and different than Redbook CD formats (mostly audible in the music decays). I know of no other loudspeakers that can do that so easily and effortlessly.

 

Chris

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The soon-to-be-discontinued current version of the Jubilees is an excellent loudspeaker.  It has great performance and is a relative bargain at its price.  However, it was built to be used on stages or behind movie screens, so its appearance had a low priority.  A panel of fairly attractive wood down the front is the only concession to aesthetics.

 

The new Jubilee, which will be called The Jubilee, since it's the first home version, is a step up in performance, and big step up in looks.  We don't know yet how much the performance is improved, just that Roy, the head engineer, was asked to produce the best, no-compromise, cost no object, version of the Jubilee possible.  All appearances suggest that it is all that.  The Jubilee may still be a relative bargain, but even so, it will be much more expensive than the previous stage/cinema version.

 

Juan, your English is quite good, and most important, it's easy to understand.  We can easily see what you mean.

 

Welcome to the Forum!

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12 hours ago, choqueiro said:
Does anyone have the opportunity of hearing ATC SCM150 speakers

The ATC  SCM150 is a Studio monitor for mastering applications in a close by setting and in an insulated booth environment  -  

 

  the Jubilee 2021 has a Limited Run of 75 units for the 75 th of Klipsch and at 35k$ , it is  a bargain versus a Tannoy Westminster -

-  if you are serious of purchasing a pair of Jubilee 75 th  ,  I would not wait , since they may already be spoken for - 

 

You can reach    @Chief bonehead or @dwilawyer   if you wish to reserve a pair , and klipsch may assist with a Dealer Delivery -

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The ATC  SCM150 is a Studio monitor for mastering applications in a close by setting and in an insulated booth environment  -  
 
  the Jubilee 2021 has a Limited Run of 75 units for the 75 th of Klipsch and at 35k$ , it is  a bargain versus a Tannoy Westminster -
-  if you are serious of purchasing a pair of Jubilee 75 th  ,  I would not wait , since they may already be spoken for - 
 
You can reach    [mention=58629]Chief bonehead[/mention] or [mention=13028]dwilawyer[/mention]   if you wish to reserve a pair , and klipsch may assist with a Dealer Delivery -
I believe the "only 75" Is pertaining to the 75th anniversary version. From my understanding there will be other variations that may offer more than 75 pairs.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

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16 minutes ago, The Dude said:

my understanding there will be other variations
 

I hope so --🤩

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2 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

the Jubilee 2021 has a Limited Run of 75 units for the 75 th of Klipsch and at 35k$

Limited to 75 Pairs for 75th Anniversary Edition of the Jubilee. After that, it will be available in a regular edition I believe.

 

Sold through Certified Heritage dealers.

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Hi Juan,

 

I had the opportunity to listen to Tannoy Westminster Royal GR. It was displayed at local audio show few years ago before covid-19 by their official dealer.

These are huge speakers and were placed in decent size hotel room with lots of heavy curtains on the walls, hooked up to the bast of Accuphase amplification and pricey sources.

The sound was good but I could imagine them sound much better in some home environment, where more care is taken to positioning them and room acoustics.

They certainly can sound big, loud an bold - that the dealer tried to show to us. But regardless how expensive they are, they will not solve all the issues you might have in your home.

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Hi to everyone. Thanks so much for all the answers. I appreciated so much your interest. Lovely people in a lovely community.

 

Garyc, I have read a lot of your comments on this and other forums. You are everywhere!!!! Hahaha!!! You have all my trust and the most important you seem to bee impartial even though you are a Klipsch-man.

 

Marvel, thanks for your clarification. I didn´t know that I would need 4 amp channels.

 

Hi PrestonTom, "dynamic" is always the word I heard when someone talks about Klipsch sound. Also the sensation of being in the concert with the artists. I´m really excited with the debut of the news Jubilees. In any case, it´s a must hearing them. Also the price is a nother big question.... Even though I do not exclude the old jubilees, I ´m going to wait for the news and compare...

 

Hi Chris A. Thanks for your time answering all my questions. You are a klipsch-man also. No doubt. Thanks for your advices. Even though jubilees doesnt need a particular amplifier, I think that quality devices make sense. I prefer valve amplification. In your opinion is a must little power according to the hig sensitivity?? Any particulatr recommendation??

 

Thanks Islander. Yes, I heard many good impressions about the old jubilees but I´m going to wait for the new ones. Let´s hope that Roy can meet the expectations.

 

Yes, RandyH000, that´s exactly my fears (or concerns) about the ATC SCM-150. They are a studio monitor, and that means that they could be exccesively fatiging and excessively analytical. They are active and that´s something really curious and maybe a good factor. I mean, it seems that nowadays people only want passive versions (well, the funny part of been an audiophile is mixing devices and experimenting with them). But active speakers have many virtues. Hoewewr my ears (and my heart) seem to prefer the klipsch way. Thanks so much for the contacts. i will talk with them . I didn´t know that is going to be an special edition limited to 75 units. Interesting.

 

Hi parlophone1. Tannoy is a nother technology. They are musical but as you comment they are a little bit complicated. The room, the acoustic ... Many factors and I don´t think they could be as good or better than klipsch.

 

I would not like to expand on thistoo long, but knowing your patience and your indulgence, I am allowing myself to ask you (you are friendly and impartial people), what do you think about going the "vintage" way - second hand way (the other possibility that I have in mind). I´m talkin about these "totems":

 

Altec A-19

JBL 4343b

Pioneer 2402

 

Some of the models you can buy them also modified (for example KRS4343):

 

 

 

What´s your opinion?? I know that they are forums specific for the vintage speakers. But I want also the opinions of people from other forums with a less "partial" opinions. Are these old speakers only a fashion for the audiophiles?? Are they worthy?? best sound ever?? Better than new Klipsch models??

 

Thanks in advance for your time. You are wonderful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I suppose the price tag of the new Klipsch Jubilees has probably hit home...the reason for the shift suddenly away from the Klipsch Jubilee?  The new Jubilees also are not yet available.  The original Jubilee version using the bass bin designed by Roy Delgado and PWK is still available new in extremely limited quantities presently.  They are ~$15K (USD) in North America.  The large jump in price of the newer Jubilee isn't as related to sound quality as it is to the market to which it is aimed, bringing something like a 2x to 4x increase in price for more modest sound quality improvements (i.e., blind test preferences). Apparently "audiophiles" don't believe that loudspeakers are good unless they are also very expensive--much more expensive than their fabrication costs.  So the price increases almost exponentially to "meet market demand for their perceived exclusivity". 

_______________________________________________________________

 

Unfortunately, this is not a JBL or Altec website--although there are many here that have owned these brands over the years and may still have fond memories of them.  Both of these companies have their own audio enthusiast websites to check. Try this one: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/index.php  There have been several changes in loudspeaker design requirements since the 70s and 80s that have made those older JBL studio monitors no longer favored for music production work (i.e., recording, mixing and mastering studios).  While they have very good sound quality in general, they all seem to have their own idiosyncrasies by model type.  In particular, they all seem to suffer from polar coverage issues vs. frequency--something that the Jubilee design mostly avoids, and Danley Synergies/multiple-entry horns [MEHs] completely avoid.  The Tannoy Westminster Royal also avoids many/most of the issues of polar coverage irregularities, but at the expense of using a direct radiating woofer, which introduces modulation distortion to the higher frequencies (due to woofer cone motion at higher SPL while forming a horn for the higher frequencies).

 

In general, my impression of the old 1970s and 1980s JBLs studio monitors is that the individual drivers are usually very good (albeit relatively expensive), but the integration of those drivers into full loudspeakers for home hi-fi use seems like it always leaves something to be desired-especially the horns and their lack of horn-loaded bass.  One thing to look for in older loudspeakers for home hi-fi service: horn-loaded bass bins.  Without them, there is a qualitative difference in the sound quality, I've found.

 

Altec-Lansing Voice of the Theater (VOTT) cinema loudspeakers also typically have very solid drivers, but system integration into full loudspeakers isn't something that can really compete with the Klipsch Jubilee (either version), IMO. 

 

The biggest problem that I see is that the Altec VOTTs and even more so--the older JBL studio monitors--have become collectors items for audio enthusiasts in one particular country (Japan) that has apparently driven the costs of used units completely out of sight--certainly much higher than they otherwise would command.  The same situation exists for the old Western Electric cinema horns, which have their own issues.  Nostalgia seems to be the main motivational factor.  You would be buying a much more capable set of loudspeakers if looking at Jubilees, in my opinion.

 

Chris

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The Jubilee system was already out of my range, and the new one even more so.

 

I suppose there could be a wait and see what turns up on the used market, if a few on here jump to the newest version.

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Hi Chris A.

 

First of all thanks so much for your time and your answer. It’s really useful to me.

 

It was not my intention to talk extensively of the virtues from other brands or devices in comparison with klipsch speakers. I don’t want to offend anyone on this forum. It’s just that I have doubts and you are very friendly and knowledge people. Maybe the reasonable will be ask this questions on another forum (I know very well audioheritage, Chris), but for me is also (or most) important hearing the opinions outside from their natural place or forum, just to hear the third opinion of people that prefer other brands. According to this, I’m also asking about klipsch sound outside from this forum.

 

You say many interesting things on your post Chris.
 

More price neccesarily we think that it must be better. Yes, it stupid but is marketing and our brain works this way. Low prices nowadays on high fidelity are synonimous of little interest to the general public. Does it mean that the new Jubilees are going to have a high price?? Yes, of course. Nevertheless I’m sure that it’s going to be more economical that something of the same quality of the competition. The question is, does anyone thinks that with this movement Klipsch is betraying his traditional politics of prices (normally adjusted)??

 

Here in Spain we have a great example of what’s going on in the hifi industry. Recently a new brand of speakers has been launched to the market. Spain (in contrast to Germay, Switzerland and other countries of Eastern Europe) has no tradition on this market. No brands, no history on high-fidelity. No industry. The speakers are having some good reviews but they are the same old. Nothing spectacular, nothing innovative. Just another brand. Even though the brand is making his debut and there is little knowledge about him on hifi world, the prices of the speakers are really high (in some cases prohibitives).

 

I asked about JBL, Altec and some other vintage devices, because (apart from the fashion with all the vintage items) I heard many trustful audiophiles (with many loudspeakers behind her) saying that “the end of the trip is an Altec A19 or a JBL of the 70’s”. 
 

I also was impressed by the words of Greg Timbers on this review: https://positive-feedback.com/interviews/greg-timbers-jbl/

 

Who do you admire as a speaker designer today?

I honestly don't pay much attention to loudspeaker designers any more. Every now and then I see something that looks cool or refreshing to me, but mostly everything is a rehash of what has gone before and is so covered with marketing hype that I just don't care.  I am a dynamics guy and very few loudspeakers take that into consideration, in my opinion. 
 

How has the sound of speakers changed over the years? Many yearn for the speakers of the past over those of today… what has changed? Distortion, materials, focus on sound characteristics?

Speakers have generally become smoother, more 3-dimensional and much smaller. This means that they are less dynamic on the whole and rather toy like compared to good stuff from the 60s and 70s. Unlike electronics, miniaturization is not a good thing with loudspeakers. There is no substitute for size and horsepower. Nothing much has changed with the laws of physics in the last 100 years so what it takes to make dynamic life-like sound is unchanged. There have been some advances in magnet materials and a bunch of progress in adhesives but not much else. The cost of a 70s system in today's economy would be considered unaffordable and the system would be deemed unnecessarily huge. The large highly efficient systems of old came at a time when 15 – 30 watts of power was the norm. Today's stuff would choke on those amplifiers. Now that power is cheap, size and efficiency has been thrown out the window because you can always apply more power. Unfortunately, more power does not make up for lack of efficiency. Today's speakers range between 0.1% to maybe 0.5% in efficiency. (On a good day) 60s and 70s stuff was more like 1% to 10%. With most of the losses gong to heat, turning up the power on a small system with small voice coils and poor heat management is definitely not equivalent to a large high efficient speaker.

It is true that the response of many of the old systems was a bit ragged and generally less attention was put in the crossover networks because simplicity generally means higher through-put. However, the big Altec's, JBL's, Klipsch's and Tannoys of the day would still fair well today with a little modernization of the enclosures and crossovers.

Today's multi-channel home theater setups let a bunch of small toy loudspeakers and a sub or two sound pretty big and impressive to the average Joe. I think speakers have mostly become a commodity and small size and price are what counts the most now. The few high-end brands left are struggling for market share in this age of ear buds.


As you can see Klipsch makes all sense. Physic is physic or the size matters. But according to the words of Greg, 60 and 70’s stuff also make sense. What do you think??

 

Thanks so much for your opinions and sorry for my mistakes writing in english. 

 

 

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I have mostly only heard the smaller of the JBLs and Altecs over the years. A friend had some Altec Model 19s, which were nice for what they were but he had them in a very sub optimal room.I have heard larger JBLs in a couple of studios, which sounded very good at the time, but music played back off the original master tapes was also a factor. I still own a smaller pair of JBLs, the 4311s, which are about the same size as Klipsch Heresy speakers. I enjoy them connected to a vintage Harman Kardon receiver. Being all direct radiator drivers, they are not as efficient as the Klipsch, and the Klipsch handle dynamics a lot better.

 

The all direct radiator designs, as nice as they are, and many are very beautiful, will have more distortion in the bass, and will cover a lot of the failings of modern streaming music formats.

 

None of the older models compare to my larger system speakers, made up of Klipsch products.

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1 hour ago, choqueiro said:

As you can see Klipsch makes all sense. Physics is physics and size matters. But according to the words of Greg, 60 and 70’s stuff also make sense. What do you think??

Well, this is where nostalgia and devotion to great loudspeaker designers of the past diverges from great loudspeaker designers of the present and with it, even better understanding of what's important (the psychoacoustic requirements) than existed 40-60 years ago.  That's what separates the loudspeakers we've been discussing. 

 

So if you're okay with those differences, and your needs are satisfied with 60s-80s JBLs or Altec VOTTs, then enjoy those designs (just like many people enjoy vintage automobiles and other older gear, etc.). 

 

However, it gets better with the Jubilee--much better, in fact.  If you're interested in "better", then we can continue that discussion.

 

If you wish to talk more about JBL and Altec, I referenced another forum not because it isn't okay to talk about it here, it's just that the people in those forums can probably carry on a better/less biased conversation based on better calibrated information about those loudspeakers.  People here may not be as experienced with them, and even others might feel strongly about talking about non-Klipsch loudspeakers...although there is a Frazier group here, and a few Danley enthusiasts, etc.

 

Chris

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Marvel, Chris thanks for your time and advices. I learn so much reading your comments.
 

Chris, you are an open book. Great debate. Is not nostalgia and devotion what this game is all about?? (Haha)

 

Seriously, for me sound matters and sound is the first. I will go the Klipsch way. Great system.  Those jubilees are amazing Chris.

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