Replace brass jumpers?

[Trey Cannon]

I will buy lunch for anyone that can PROVE the jumpers and wire are different and the wire is better.   Voltage transfer, acoustic measurement, blind listening with switching, Note from your Momma....ok, not the last one, but you get the point.    insert little yellow button

[babadono]

56 minutes ago, MicroMara said:

Another point I would like to discuss with all of you ...If the Bi Wireing with seperate jumpers are nonsens and not audible at all, why in hell 98 % of all  loudspeaker manufacturers in the world market are installing these Bi Wire Terminals with 4 Binding post in their Speakers ? I mean they can save material / production / design costs to make a simple 2 way Terminal instead.

It's to placate audiophiles and marketing

[jimjimbo]

42 minutes ago, Trey Cannon said:

I will buy lunch for anyone that can PROVE the jumpers and wire are different and the wire is better.   Voltage transfer, acoustic measurement, blind listening with switching, Note from your Momma....ok, not the last one, but you get the point.    insert little yellow button

Instead, why don't you prove (since you have all of that fabulous lab gear, and no handheld meters), that the wire isn't better?  Please post your results.

[MicroMara]

37 minutes ago, babadono said:

It's to placate audiophiles and marketing

that´s too easy .....

[MicroMara]

I knew before that you have thrown here a very hot iron into the blazing fire @AndreG......           You will surely tell us if there is a perceptible acoustic improvement on your speakers.

[wstrickland1]

53 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

Instead, why don't you prove (since you have all of that fabulous lab gear, and no handheld meters), that the wire isn't better?  Please post your results.

This may get interesting

[Shiva]

Do we want to spend time dickering over a little tinkering?😀

 

 

[jimjimbo]

18 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Do we want to spend time dickering over a little tinkering?😀

 

 

This forum has been there, done that, a zillion times, don't you think?

[AndreG.]

Yes, let me try this "little bit of tinkering" @Shiva , i have most of the needed parts lying around here anyway. I´ll post my findings; these will be highly subjective of course, i can´t measure but using my ears.

A very controversial theme, i see. Thanks for Your input Guys.

[Zen Traveler]

3 hours ago, MicroMara said:

Another point I would like to discuss with all of you ...If the Bi Wireing with seperate jumpers are nonsens and not audible at all, why in hell 98 % of all  loudspeaker manufacturers in the world market are installing these Bi Wire Terminals with 4 Binding post in their Speakers ? I mean they can save material / production / design costs to make a simple 2 way Terminal instead.

Fwiw,  some people like to put a different amp on the tweeter/LF driver  and if they change the crossover it makes sense. Otoh,  I think Klipsch does it because Audiophiles expect it on a quality speaker and it dresses up the lower end models to impress newbies who think they are getting an Audiophile speaker. Of course I could be even more cynical and say that speaker wire mfgs compensate klipsch to do it.    That's my take.

[babadono]

You want it to sound better/different....so it does...that's how the human mind works

[Edgar]

4 hours ago, MicroMara said:

Another point I would like to discuss with all of you ...If the Bi Wireing with seperate jumpers are nonsens and not audible at all, why in hell 98 % of all  loudspeaker manufacturers in the world market are installing these Bi Wire Terminals with 4 Binding post in their Speakers ? I mean they can save material / production / design costs to make a simple 2 way Terminal instead.

 

If it's done right, then they are not biwiring terminals, but biamplification terminals. That is to say, the internal LF and HF crossovers are electrically separate, so you can use separate amplifiers for the LF section and the HF section (both amps fed the same input signal; the separation occurs in the onboard crossover). If someone chooses to biwire (only one amp feeds LF and HF sections by separate wires) instead of biamp, that's their business.

[MicroMara]

2 hours ago, babadono said:

You want it to sound better/different....so it does...that's how the human mind works

It is not a question of desirable thinking , only whether it is audible or not.

[Edgar]

20 hours ago, Trey Cannon said:

I will buy lunch for anyone that can PROVE the jumpers and wire are different and the wire is better. 

 

To take that one step further, I suspect that you could substitute a ½Ω wirewound resistor for one of the jumpers and most people couldn't hear the difference.

 

EDIT: And among those who could hear a difference, about half would judge that the resistor sounded better.

[billybob]

Maybe a statement like, brass jumpers sound better to me than solid copper dedicated jumpers, a way to flush out the difference of opinion.

If solid brass, is the conductance better than copper another?

And, what if any psycho acoustic bias comes into the matter as to the choice.

If it sounds better to you, with the copper, then it is better.

May not be the reality but, if you think so well, it is.

Hope this is confusing.

 

[mboxler]

I always thought that those straps were made out of gold-plated tin/steel, not brass.

[Trey Cannon]

14 minutes ago, mboxler said:

I always thought that those straps were made out of gold-plated tin/steel, not brass.

...mostly Zinc...plated in brass or "shiny stuff"

 

[Trey Cannon]

On 4/12/2021 at 11:56 AM, jimjimbo said:

Instead, why don't you prove (since you have all of that fabulous lab gear, and no handheld meters), that the wire isn't better?  Please post your results.

I would have to go to the lab in INDY to do that...then someone would scream that I didn't have a mask on and I would have to kick someones ***. 

I am working on a testing rig at home...once that is up and running I hope to do just that. MAYBE point out all the YELLOW BUTTON stuff.

[Edgar]

12 minutes ago, Trey Cannon said:

...mostly Zinc...plated in brass or "shiny stuff"

 

Conductivity. Higher numbers are better.

 

[MicroMara]

As the OP is a german guy , it could be that the sense of mentioned brass isn´t the same that you might understand. If you translate brass from german to us english than it has two meanings, on one hand brass is a sheet metal ( Plate ) on the other hand brass as material .