jimjimbo Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 56 minutes ago, avguytx said: Still deliberating on spending the money on those JEM caps "just to see". Be sure to leave the leads as long as possible when you install to make it easier to remove them....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 56 minutes ago, jimjimbo said: Be sure to leave the leads as long as possible when you install to make it easier to remove them....... No kidding.... ha Upstairs doing some listening on Spotify and a song came on (picture attached) and it really exaggerated an area of these Belle clones that always bugged me. So I pulled up an RTA app on my phone to see what area it's in. I know its not an exact measurement but 200hz area is really boosted almost to the point of making the song awful. She has a good voice, though. When you have a moment, listen to that track and see if it sounds exaggerated on yours, too. And anyone else, for that matter, that has Belles, LS's, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Listened to it on my Belles. Sounded nice to me. Never heard of her before. Pleasant voice for sure. I can't help but think something is not working quite right in your Belles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted April 25, 2021 Author Share Posted April 25, 2021 On 4/22/2021 at 7:44 PM, MookieStl said: Listened to it on my Belles. Sounded nice to me. Never heard of her before. Pleasant voice for sure. I can't help but think something is not working quite right in your Belles. If I were closer to Crites facility in Russellville, I'd take my crossovers to them for testing. This peak/louder response at 200hz still has me puzzled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 On 4/22/2021 at 4:07 PM, avguytx said: No kidding.... ha Upstairs doing some listening on Spotify and a song came on (picture attached) and it really exaggerated an area of these Belle clones that always bugged me. So I pulled up an RTA app on my phone to see what area it's in. I know its not an exact measurement but 200hz area is really boosted almost to the point of making the song awful. She has a good voice, though. When you have a moment, listen to that track and see if it sounds exaggerated on yours, too. And anyone else, for that matter, that has Belles, LS's, etc. Could this be your room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted April 25, 2021 Author Share Posted April 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said: Could this be your room? I'm sure it's possible but the ads L1230's didn't show that peak. Just waiting on their mids to come back from being "made anew" and will measure again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Long shot, is the slot in the woofer chamber the correct size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted April 25, 2021 Author Share Posted April 25, 2021 27 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said: Long shot, is the slot in the woofer chamber the correct size? 3" x 13" which is what numerous plans showed and I'd also read where a pair in bad shape were measured out as they were gutted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 There are some songs I listen to that seem to sound out of phase more so than what I originally remember them sounding like. There are many songs that seemed to do this and some worse than others. I was going to dig more into the crossovers last night but I was going back through our house camera videos as someone stole my utility trailer and I was going through video at 8x speed which is boring as $h!+. But that's another story. I really believe these should be sounding better and I hope it's something stupid simple. But, the highs and mids seem so laid back in comparison to the ads L1230's that it makes the Belle clones sound like there's a blanket over them. Those crossovers haven't been "unwired" since they've been the new house which is coming up on 2 years now but I'm going to trace all connections...again. I'm considering building the AB-2 network just to see the differences. Unless I get talked out of it. ha Also looking for a pair of the newer K-55 mids and have some of my old dealer friends (back when I was a Manufacturers Rep) checking to see what's available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiFi Heaven Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 Reverse the input phase to BOTH speakers - this will invert the ABSOLUTE PHASE of your system. You may find the sound is closer to what you remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 33 minutes ago, HiFi Heaven said: Reverse the input phase to BOTH speakers - this will invert the ABSOLUTE PHASE of your system. You may find the sound is closer to what you remember. Reverse phase on both mid drivers or on both speakers as a whole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiFi Heaven Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 Flip the wires from the amplifier to the crossover inputs on both speakers. You can wire SPDT switches ($5 each) to do this quickly to A/B compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiFi Heaven Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 Carefully go through the crossover wiring as stated. Also, try putting them in a different room, or at least move them 5 feet into the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said: Carefully go through the crossover wiring as stated. Also, try putting them in a different room, or at least move them 5 feet into the room. I'll definitely go back through the wiring just to be on the safe side. The upstairs room is the only area of the house I do any audio stuff. I intentionally built the room upstairs to keep it from cluttering up the downstairs area. I have a 15 x 32 room and the Belles, and any other speakers, sound the best on the long wall wall where I sit about 12 feet away. If I put them on the short wall, or any others, they sound worse unless you move all the furniture/chairs further back in the room to allow for the "wave" from the bass to sound right. You sit about 16 feet back but the room goes back to 32 feet where there's just a door to downstairs, and a bathroom and a closet. I just try to make do the best I can with what I have, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalifornian Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 Im going to chime in here. Ive owned (in the following order) LaScala, Belle, and Jubilee. The LaScala and Belle's always had something missing or just not quiet right no matter if they were stock or altered they just never filled the spot. The Jubilee with active xover are awesome and fill everything the other two were missing and then some. Yes the price difference but if i had just skipped the la scala and belle the money would have paid for the jubilees. I would recommend ditching the Belles. Unless you are in to the endless fiddling to try and find the right sound.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted April 30, 2021 Author Share Posted April 30, 2021 19 hours ago, Kalifornian said: Im going to chime in here. Ive owned (in the following order) LaScala, Belle, and Jubilee. The LaScala and Belle's always had something missing or just not quiet right no matter if they were stock or altered they just never filled the spot. The Jubilee with active xover are awesome and fill everything the other two were missing and then some. Yes the price difference but if i had just skipped the la scala and belle the money would have paid for the jubilees. I would recommend ditching the Belles. Unless you are in to the endless fiddling to try and find the right sound.... Thanks for your input. I'm sure you remember that I'm the one that bought the Belle parts from you...grills, K-500's, AA crossovers, etc. I'm sure this is going down as my hearing getting worse and I've had other people tell me that they sound great, which supports my thinking. But, the ads L1230's just do everything better for my hearing as to what I can hear at this point and time plus they cover from bottom to top without the need for a sub. As much as a pair of Jubilee's would be great, I really don't have the room for a K-402 atop of the bass bins with the way the room is shaped on the short wall. They would have to go too close together to not touch the slanted ceiling which would not be optimum. The long walls are 54" tall where they slope up to 96" like many above garage rooms do. Klipschorns would work 15 feet apart (corner to corner) but I don't care to spend that kind of money on older used models or new models, which I can buy for landed dealer price from many dealers I've known in a 5 state area for 25 years. I just don't need that much anymore. Hell, I'm contemplating selling all my LP's off of which some I've had since I started buying them in the late 70's. It's been 6+ months since I spun an album; I mainly stream Spotify because, again, I can't hear the difference between them and Amazon Music HD, Tidal, or any of the others; which sucks. Or, I listen to FLAC files from my NAS via JRiver. Again thanks for your input and everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted May 1, 2021 Author Share Posted May 1, 2021 Currently pondering buying another pair of Epic CF-3's from a friend not too far from me. Satin black v1's all stock. I always enjoyed those that I had before and there's things they do lots better than my Belle clones. So pondering.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 6 hours ago, avguytx said: Currently pondering buying another pair of Epic CF-3's from a friend not too far from me. Satin black v1's all stock. I always enjoyed those that I had before and there's things they do lots better than my Belle clones. So pondering.... Buy them then figure out which ones to keep. Kind of hard to see this thread. Good luck with the Belles. You should be able to work it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 On 4/13/2021 at 9:27 AM, avguytx said: I don't know. Maybe this is more of a rant than anything. ha If they measure like LaScalas, which I suspect they do, there's a nasty 140 Hz. peak that is part of the horn design itself. Roy DelGado uses a -7 db PEQ for the bass bin when it's used with Active Xover with a K-402 on top and K-691. It's not your imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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