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Low powered tube amp, potential damage?


chn68b

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2 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

How About a Class A  25wpc SS amp , all is relative --no tubes to replace , no bias to adjust --

 

I'm sure there are some disadvantages to a SS class a amp too:  the heat they generate is environmentally bad, and because of the heat, the life expectancy of the ss amps class a are too limited. In warm regions, and during summer, they turn off by themselves because of overheating, unless you install airconditioning and extra cooling. They are huge and weigh a ton.

 

 

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7 hours ago, GriffinFL said:

 

Here to tell you that low-watt tubes produce less distortion than hi-watt SS.  The Sony stereo receiver (100wpc) I used to power my Belles gets scattered, distorted, and generally unlistenable in the 5-10% range.  Swapping out for a pair of Quicksilver 25wpc monoblocks changed everything.  Even at ultra-low-power, the output was laser-focused, like the volume level was really just how far away I was from the place where the actual live music was happening. 

It is the way clipping occurs between a SS vs tube amplifier. To see what I mean you need an oscilloscope. With an abundance of power your SS amp will not clip. Hardly a problem with 25 watt SS amplifiers with Klipsch speakers. That is if the SS amplifier is designed well. 

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5 hours ago, MeloManiac said:

 

I'm sure there are some disadvantages to a SS class a amp too:  the heat they generate is environmentally bad, and because of the heat, the life expectancy of the ss amps class a are too limited. In warm regions, and during summer, they turn off by themselves because of overheating, unless you install airconditioning and extra cooling. They are huge and weigh a ton.

 

Not to be disrespectable but Firstwatt SS amplifiers last as long as any tube amplifier without ever giving a problem. Their track record is exemplarily. The heat factor is no worse then most tube amplifiers. Tube amplifiers also get very hot when you get over 5 watts. The size and weight are much the same as well. I speak from experience having many of both. The only significant difference is price. One can achieve the same quality of class A sound a lot cheaper with a decent tube amplifier. Some of the Chinese ones can be bought for around $500 whereas a Firstwatt amplifier is going to set you back 3 grand or more. One drawback I have not mentioned that can be significant with a class A SS amplifier is the 30 minutes to an hour of warm up time needed for them to sound best. The need to get to operating temp to sound best.  I generally turn on and prefer a tube amplifier. 

 

Let's face it most of the public prefer a SS amplifier. They do not know our secret about the sound of a tube amplifier. SS has been chasing the tube sound since first appearing. 

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2 hours ago, henry4841 said:

Tube amplifiers also get very hot when you get over 5 watts.

 

You are right. I could 'slowcook' pork chops on my Leben CS300 if I wanted. 

When I wrote the above, I was not thinking of high end gear like the First Watt, Nelson Pass league of gear. But  rather the Marantz and similar brands who produced some affordable Class A amps but soon shifted to other technologies because they were too 'high maintenance' and too many arrived in the repair shop. 

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And don’t forget the energy pull with Class A solid state. If memory serves my FW F3’s pull 230 watts from the wall, running mine as monoblocks that’s 460 continuous watts usage to achieve 15 watts of output.  I once owned a pair of Forte, a subsidiary of Nelson’s Threshold, Class A Model 7’s that used 750 watts each, 1500 watts to run Class A monoblocks. That Class A heat translates into power consumption.

Tube  heat - run your hand over the 6c33 Russian triodes, an 845 or 211 and the Leben is quite tepid. 

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14 hours ago, henry4841 said:

It is the way clipping occurs between a SS vs tube amplifier. To see what I mean you need an oscilloscope. With an abundance of power your SS amp will not clip. Hardly a problem with 25 watt SS amplifiers with Klipsch speakers. That is if the SS amplifier is designed well. 

 

As a guitarist, I promise you don't have to explain to me the difference between MOSFET distortion and tube distortion. ;) 

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Well, over the last couple of evenings I've spent quite a few hours listening to the new amp at levels I'm very happy with and there is no distortion, only silky smooth and airy sounds.

 

Listening to Daniel Lanois's "Heavy Sun" and Jon Batiste's "We Are" was literally music to my ears. I'm no longer concerned, this is definitely not just a headphone amp as suggested.

 

I will at some stage use the link to determine my watt useage provided by Maynard as I'm still curious. 

 

Cheers

Edited by chn68b
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8 hours ago, GriffinFL said:

 

As a guitarist, I promise you don't have to explain to me the difference between MOSFET distortion and tube distortion. ;) 

Perfect example. Guitarist love those old tube amps that now command a premium price. They know the difference by using their ears. 

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5 hours ago, chn68b said:

Well, over the last couple of evenings I've spent quite a few hours listening to the new amp at levels I'm very happy with and there is no distortion, only silky smooth and airy sounds.

 

Listening to Daniel Lanois's "Heavy Sun" and Jon Batiste's "We Are" was literally music to my ears. I'm no longer concerned, this is definitely not just a headphone amp as suggested.

 

I will at some stage use the link to determine my watt useage provided by Maynard as I'm still curious. 

 

Cheers

Always trust your ears! 

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The thing about a tube amplifier it may clip on peaks occasionally without you ever knowing or hearing it. The only thing I have ever noticed on some 2 watt amplifiers is lacking some low bass which is no big deal with a sub. With 5 watts of tube power nothing really lacking. 

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8 hours ago, chn68b said:

this is definitely not just a headphone amp as suggested.

I have both the MP-301 first generation and the MkIII.

I discovered the original Mp-301 through Headfi.org, so yeah it was touted as a headphone amp initially.

I think the later versions are used primarily as speaker amps. 
I have used both amps in various combinations with Heresy I and IIIs and Forte Is, all combos sounded excellent and played plenty loud with no audible clipping.

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On 4/26/2021 at 6:34 AM, henry4841 said:

Perfect example. Guitarist love those old tube amps that now command a premium price. They know the difference by using their ears. 

 

Nah.  Wealthy guitarists love old tube amps because there's a prestige component to owning them.  

 

My rehearsal rig features a very modern tube amp, but when I record, it's all digital modeling, because I can tweak settings after the fact. 

 

My point was that I very well know the difference between tube distortion and MOSFET distortion.  Pro tip:  I use both in my live rig.  So does nearly every other guitarist who doesn't rely completely on digital modeling systems. 

Edited by GriffinFL
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