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Active XO software, Learning Curve


VDS

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Hi, I’m starting the move to active crossovers. Wondering about the diffence between MiniDSP and Xilica.  From all reports both seem to work great, how about the difference in “User friendliness”?

For “software illiterate” audiophiles, myself, is one a better starting point than the other to get things up and running? Does Mini Dsp have enough functionality to be a long term solution?

My use is a 402 MEH 2 way that I will start soon.

thanks for any perspectives, Ted

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$1000 more? Really is it that much more these days? No experience with miniDSP here but the Xilica's GUI is OK. Hook it up with a laptop and the free software and it is fairly easy to use. The front panel controls? Not so much.

And with the Xilica you get 96kHz converters. I think the mini is 48kHz.

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    I can only speak to the MiniDSP, as I have never used a Xilica.  I find the MiniDSP software plugin (I am using 4x10HD) to be extremely straightforward and easy to use.  There is definitely a learning curve to getting good results with it, but the software itself is very easy and intuitive to use.  I got decent results right off the bat, and really, really good results after a few months of trial and error.  Now I can setup a speaker or swap a component and have it perfectly dialed in after an hour or two of measuring and adjusting.

 

17 minutes ago, babadono said:

And with the Xilica you get 96kHz converters. I think the mini is 48kHz.

 

    The basic MiniDSP ($99) is 48kHz, but the MiniDSP 2x4HD ($199) and the MiniDSP 4x10HD ($499) are 96kHz.  I hear the 48kHz versions have a somewhat higher noise floor, but I have never tried it myself.  I find the noise floor to be very quiet (non-existent to my ears)and sound quality to be very good on my 96kHz version.

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2 hours ago, VDS said:

Wondering about the diffence between MiniDSP and Xilica.

 

The Xilicas are quieter than the miniDSP "HD" series crossovers.  This also enhances the perception of fidelity.  The Xilica XP crossovers are about $400-$600 USD more expensive (depending on the number of input/output channels), but note that this isn't a place to "get cheap" as so many people seem to do--with poor results. 

 

In fact, I'd get a lot cheaper on the amplifiers used than on the DSP crossover--from my own experiences with both. I can barely hear the difference between a First Watt F3 amplifier and a used Crown D-75A rack amplifier--and the price differential is much greater (used). As a rule of thumb, I recommend the Xilica XP series if your loudspeaker's sensitivity is like a current Jubilee's (i.e., 110 dB/2.83 volts in the high frequency channel).  If you're using  below 100 dB/2.83 v sensitivity high frequency drivers, then the miniDSP 2x4 HD (and its bigger brother--the 4x10 HD) works well.  For instance, I can't hear any noise using ESS AMT-1s with the miniDSP on top of the Belle bass bins.

 

2 hours ago, VDS said:

how about the difference in “User friendliness”?

The miniDSP isn't really more "user friendly"  in my estimation and certainly it's not worth making a decision buying them over the Xilicas, since the Xilicas have lower noise, as discussed.  In fact, I got used to the XConsole application and USB connection within a minute or two of using one.  It's much easier than using something like REW (getting the hardware plugged in right and microphone channel/preamp gain calibrated, settings set right, and microphone placed correctly with sufficient absorption on the floor).

 

2 hours ago, VDS said:

For “software illiterate” audiophiles, myself, is one a better starting point than the other to get things up and running? Does Mini Dsp have enough functionality to be a long term solution?  My use is a 402 MEH 2 way that I will start soon.

I recommend the Xilica, then.  You'll probably hear the noise floor of the miniDSP from your listening position if using a miniDSP.   Don't get cheap at this part--because you'll eventually end up dissatisfied, IMHO.

 

Chris

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Basic question....If, for some reason, I wanted to add subwoofer to this 2 way system someday, would it be acceptable to hook up subwoofer in traditional manner, or significantly better to have 6 Dsp outputs to control the sub(s)?

or can I just implement a mini 2x4 separately  for the subs if need be.

I'm clearly showcasing my lack or understanding here, buts that’s where I am 
 

 

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Whoops, I may have exaggerated slightly.

 

The cost of the Xilica XP4080 ( which seems to be popular on this forum) is about  $1069 (4 in 8 out - they used to make smaller ones but I did not see any in my quick search )

https://reverb.com/item/25028216-xilica-xp-4080-processor

 

The mini DSP is about $100 (2 in 4 out)

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4

 

Good Luck,

-Tom

 

 

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Ok, well, ordered 402’s with K691x, Xilica xp4080... omg, not cheap! But I’m telling myself, even after buying 4 woofers,  I’ll have full range MEH’s for about  the price of new Forte’s.  

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2 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

The mini DSP is about $100 (2 in 4 out)

 

The miniDSP 2x4 has documented gain problems.  I don't recommend it.  Instead, the "2x4 HD" at $205 is a very good and usable product--if your high frequency driver sensitivity isn't too high.  If you do have a very sensitive compression driver, then I recommend Xilica XP series.

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59 minutes ago, VDS said:

Or at least much less than new Cornwalls!

Sadly, in terms of consumer loudspeaker pricing, Klipsch isn't the same company as PWK's company, IMO. The ancillary functions of the company (those departments other than production, buying/materials, and engineering) that don't add value directly to the product are probably a much bigger piece of the internal costs pie chart than they were 30-40 years ago.

 

YMMV.

 

Chris

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4 hours ago, VDS said:

Basic question....If, for some reason, I wanted to add subwoofer to this 2 way system someday, would it be acceptable to hook up subwoofer in traditional manner, or significantly better to have 6 Dsp outputs to control the sub(s)?

or can I just implement a mini 2x4 separately  for the subs if need be.

I'm clearly showcasing my lack or understanding here, buts that’s where I am 
 

 

 

I do this with my 2-in 6-out dsp since I have two subs, bass bins, and top ends. Everything is up on the front stage so I just run it in stereo from the source and effectively have two large 3-way speakers.

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12 hours ago, LTusler said:

VDS welcome to the 402 club!  I am out in Rockford and would like to get together and listen to each others systems!

Thanks, hopefully they will arrive in a timely fashion.  Another pair of 402’s so close!...do you have Jubilee’s, or paired with a bass bin?

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Hi VDS, 

I've kinda let speaker processing become as much of a hobby as speaker building.

And have used a number of different platforms from simple analog crossovers, to much of  the miniDSP stuff, to fixed prosound platforms like the Xilica XP & XD, to open architecture platforms like the Xilica Neutrino.  Don't claim to be an expert at all, just saying I've been able to compare a number of alternatives.

 

My 2c advice for starting out with active, is that initially leaning is worth far more than the "right" equipment. So I always recommend starting with something inexpensive like the $200 miniDSP 2x4HD. It's quite decent, other than limited in channel count and processing capability.

When you outgrow it (as you most likely will :)), you'll better know what you want and why....without feeling locked into a more substantial purchase, that may or may not have fully filled your needs and wants. 

 

Good luck whatever way you go !

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7 hours ago, gnarly said:

Hi VDS, 

I've kinda let speaker processing become as much of a hobby as speaker building.

And have used a number of different platforms from simple analog crossovers, to much of  the miniDSP stuff, to fixed prosound platforms like the Xilica XP & XD, to open architecture platforms like the Xilica Neutrino.  Don't claim to be an expert at all, just saying I've been able to compare a number of alternatives.

 

My 2c advice for starting out with active, is that initially leaning is worth far more than the "right" equipment. So I always recommend starting with something inexpensive like the $200 miniDSP 2x4HD. It's quite decent, other than limited in channel count and processing capability.

When you outgrow it (as you most likely will :)), you'll better know what you want and why....without feeling locked into a more substantial purchase, that may or may not have fully filled your needs and wants. 

 

Good luck whatever way you go !

I went ahead and got the Xilica. Basically people said the software was as easy as mini Dsp and I shouldn’t have to upgrade from it.  I feel like getting the most out of it will be a long process, I imagine lots of tweaking.  I also want d to play with my Cornwalls to see if I can improve on the he passives, so I thought having extra outputs  would enable me to try on my 3 ways.  

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24 minutes ago, VDS said:

I went ahead and got the Xilica. Basically people said the software was as easy as mini Dsp and I shouldn’t have to upgrade from it.  I feel like getting the most out of it will be a long process, I imagine lots of tweaking.  I also want d to play with my Cornwalls to see if I can improve on the he passives, so I thought having extra outputs  would enable me to try on my 3 ways.  

Nice!  You will no doubt enjoy it.  And yep, the channel count thingy, knowing you would need the extra outputs eventually, would probably encourage me to step up too.

Good kit :)

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