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KB WO - To Upgrade - or not to Upgrade


Bob M

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I have a pair of unmolested (I think) KB WO speakers -with AA Crossovers.  S/N 125255/125256

What is the consensus opinion on whether to upgrade the Woofers - or not,  and whether to upgrade the AA Crossovers - or not.

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1 hour ago, Bob M said:

I have a pair of unmolested (I think) KB WO speakers -with AA Crossovers.  S/N 125255/125256

What is the consensus opinion on whether to upgrade the Woofers - or not,  and whether to upgrade the AA Crossovers - or not.

 

Welcome to the board!  Glad to have you here. 

 

I really can't answer your question, other than using an active crossover setup allows you to dial in the sound that is right for your particular speakers and room (and ears!).  They are something you might look into, as there are a ton of threads about it here.

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2 hours ago, Bob M said:

I have a pair of unmolested (I think) KB WO speakers -with AA Crossovers.  S/N 125255/125256

What is the consensus opinion on whether to upgrade the Woofers - or not,  and whether to upgrade the AA Crossovers - or not.

Congratulations on your Klipschorns !

 

Folks like to modify their systems, but not all modifications are upgrades.

 

1. Leave the woofers alone. They are not the weak link on a Klipschorn. 

 

2. If you stay with passive crossovers, there are two strategies. One is to refresh the capacitors (many choices and at many different price points, including some ridiculous ones). While the other strategy is to redesign the crossover. I am quite skeptical of this later approach. 

 

In your listening to them, is there a particular problem that you are trying to address? Sometimes it may not be the Klipschorn, but something else.

 

Good luck,

-Tom

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Hi Bob! Welcome to the forum.

 

There is a lot of valuable information and experience on here.

 

If you like the way your speakers sound right now the best advice I can give you is to leave this forum now, LOL!

 

You “could” recap the crossovers but the most prominent result will be the midrange is more present.

 

(the tweeter is the weakest link) ooops, did I say that?

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for the responses.  As stated in the original message I am a newbie at this and so may ask incomplete - or just plain dumb - questions.

My KBs are in a somewhat "challenging" space.  It is a 75 foot by 75 foot wide open room - with cars stored in it during the winter.  See:  www.HistoricMotorSports.net.

When I first installed the KBs in two corners, I will admit that I was a little disappointed that they didn't do abetter job of "filling the room."  But maybe that was asking a bit much.

My solution was to hang a pair of my old (1970s vintage) Bose 901s in the opposite two corners.  to compensate for the difference in efficiency, I have a 125 Watt Harman Kardon Receiver driving the Horns, and a 250 Watt Yamaha M-80 Amp driving the 901s.

That really ends up being a pretty good arrangement because, as you might expect, the Horns are a good deal "brighter" than the 901s so, depending upon what you are actually listening to, you either drift toward the Horn end of the room for pieces that benefit from the brightness - or the the Bose end of the room when you prefer a somewhat mellower sound.

All this brings me back to the original question.  I get noticeably more base from the Bose than from the Horns - and indeed, to my ears the Horns are weaker than hey should be.  Using the Phantom of the Opera as a test piece, I do fin the Horns to be disappointing.   I was hoping that the age of this particular pair (can anyone tell me the age from the S/Ns) might throw up a red flag regarding the the surrounds on the Horn woofers.  I haven't actually remover the woofers yet because we have just this week gotten enough cars out of winter storage so I can access the Horns.

Anyway, that's where I am at the moment and any suggestions would be appreciated.

Bob M

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The woofers do not have rubber or foam surrounds and are probably fine. Check the woofer voice coils with an ohmeter(right from the wires at the crossover) Dis connect one of the wires to the woofer first so the crossover is not interfering. Loosen and re tighten all the terminal screws at the crossover. Then the big question: are the bass bins sealed well into the corners? But even so 75' spacing is asking a lot.

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2 hours ago, Bob M said:

to my ears the Horns are weaker than hey should be.  Using the Phantom of the Opera as a test piece, I do fin the Horns to be disappointing.   I was hoping that the age of this particular pair (can anyone tell me the age from the S/Ns) might throw up a red flag regarding the the surrounds on the Horn woofers.  I haven't actually remover the woofers yet because we have just this week gotten enough cars out of winter storage so I can access the Horns.

Anyway, that's where I am at the moment and any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Welcome to the Klipsch forums.  Congrats on the Khorns.

 

I see nothing but great advice directly upstream ^^^.  In particular I like @PrestonTom's advice except his suggestion that you move to the $30K Jubes!  I know Jubes are your solution to most of the problems in the world Tom, but C'mon man, he just got the Khorns!  Let him enjoy those first for a while!  😄

 

Upgrading the Type AA:  I love the sound of the AA and updating the XO caps is a fairly typical thing for Khorn users to do.  FYI Klipsch, Inc hates when we call "upgrades" as "updates." 

 

Woofer:  The woofer is likely NOT the problem unless it's blown, an extremely rare event.  The Khorn bass is so strong it is probably the only speaker I don't think needs a sub and I think every speaker system needs a sub.  In my house it would rattle pictures off the walls.

 

Bass is non-existent:  There should be excellent bass coming from Khorns, no mods typically needed.  My guess is that it is the room creating big suck-outs leading to weak bass, or it could be the settings of your AVR.  Placement makes a huge difference with speakers and especially with Khorns because of the way they are designed.  If you work with placement and  your settings which includes room correction software such as Audyssey think you will be able to find your lost bass.

 

I added a 12" SEOS waveguide with a very strong compression driver and stuck in on top for a tremendous improvement in sound, by-passing the K-77 tweeter.  I used the Crites A/4500 XO as well which had the effect of throwing more content into the HF range.  You don't need this mod, it's just what I did just for fun.

1314365747_KhornSEOSrighttopview.thumb.JPG.d2effb3b6477f4782f252ccfdcec14f3.JPG

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Well, 75 ft. spacing is bordering on the ridiculous.  Not to mention lots of hard surfaces, floor, walls, cars, etc.  which certainly don't add up to a good presentation.  Changing out the woofers for practically anything else is not going to help to be honest.  Updating the capacitors would be advisable no matter the situation.  If you plan on keeping the Khorns, my recommendation would be to enclose the backs and move them much closer together, even if they are not in corners.   Nice looking facility though!

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On 4/30/2021 at 2:36 PM, Bob M said:

S/N 125255/125256

 

Those are not the speaker S/N's for a Khorn with Type AA XO's.

 

There should be a piece of paper on the back which includes a letter.  The letter will identify the year.

 

1962-1983 Letter format

A=62

B=63

C=64

D=65

E=66

F=67

G=68

H=69

I=70

J=71

K=72

L=73

M=74

N=75

O=NONE

P=76

Q=NONE

R=77
S=78

T=79
U=80

V=NONE
W=81

X=82
Y=83

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I just looked at the S/Ns again.

Each speaker has a white (yellowed) paper label that looks pretty official.  Says "Klipschorn Loudspeaker Systems"

Then "Type"     KB-WO (Hand Written)

Then "Serial"    and hand written is:   125255 (or 125256)  There is no letter before the S/N

Then gives a list of 6 different Patents

Then lists the various Klipsch Models

Then "Inspected by"  looks like the signature of a D Johnson

then "Tested"  looks like the signature of N U (or NW) Bradford

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Bob, welcome to the Forum,, I have Lascala from 1977 and the original AA crossover capacitors are damp and rusted even though I always stored them dry. I wouldn't be surprised that your capacitors don't look very different. Others will know better, but those original capacitors with their incorrect values and high ESR can indirectly affect bass response in my experience. I currently use an AA replacement crossover since 11 years that Bob Crites had built. There are better capacitors out there, but these sonicaps are ok at least in values. 
I assume that you have connected everything correctly. But maybe it wouldn't hurt to double check if the KHs are still connected correctly in phase. The bass that a Bose 901 can do in the same large room, even if they are closer together, should easily be surpassed by the KH.

BTW you have a very nice location and some fine classic cars are to be seen at your place.

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On 4/30/2021 at 2:36 PM, Bob M said:

I have a pair of unmolested (I think) KB WO speakers -with AA Crossovers.  S/N 125255/125256

What is the consensus opinion on whether to upgrade the Woofers - or not,  and whether to upgrade the AA Crossovers - or not.

woofers should not have any issues --------capacitors  , maybe ,  upgrades of the crossovers  can be done with  klipsch original Capacitors   

 

https://jemperformanceaudio.com/

 

 

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Hello Bob,

I have a new to me pair of KB WO's too. I plan to put them in my bedroom,about 300sqft. Your space is 5600sqft. I think you asking a lot of your KB's, especially in the LF area.

If I were you I would invest in a subwoofer and place between the KB's or wherever you have space. The sub is omnidirectional  and in that large of space it should integrate easily. You can always sell it later if you want. Get a active sub with a built in crossover. If you run out of preamp outputs you can use a Niles switch. You will need some interconnect cables to finish the hookup from the signal to sub.

I plan to upgrade my crossovers eventually...I would leave the drivers stock.

Btw I have plenty of bass now in my downstairs HT....a 1400sqft space. Big spaces require lots of air to be moved to get the desired effect you are looking for.

Good luck with your room.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303974382697?epid=7034597520&hash=item46c648fc69:g:hlEAAOSwysBghbea

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265148473037?hash=item3dbc149ecd:g:ynsAAOSwMMdgkZb4

https://www.qsc.com/live-sound/products/loudspeakers/active-loudspeakers/ks-series-new/ks118/

IMG_1224.JPG

IMG_1087.jpg

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2 hours ago, Budman said:

your serial numbers are 12 S 255 and 12 S 256 with the S standing for 1978

the 3rd digit is not the number 5  its the letter  S

 

2 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

You da "Bud" Man....

Thanks for decoding this and making it clear to all:emotion-21::emotion-22:

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