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mopardave

The price of hi quality audio

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The way some people have been talking around here lately I thought the Jubilee was pretty much out of reach. If what you are saying is true, then I certainly agree. 
 

Yeah, if you’ve got the room for them and the Mrs. doesn’t care, a complete no brainer. 

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16 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

Some of you folks have strange notions. 

 

For the prices you guys are talking about you can get a pair of Jubilees (No, it won't have the over-priced veneer), a DSP unit (No, it won't be the best but it will be good enough) and a second amplifier (Again, not the best but good enough). Add it all up and it will be less than 10 grand. Believe me, you will have exceptional sound. Hands down! Period ! etc ....

Quite possibly the best sound you have ever heard. 

 

That is something to consider

Jubilees for less than 10K? I paid 4K for real nice AK5's...... 

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That’s kind of a steal. Some one must have needed their meth real bad. 

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1 minute ago, Fast996 said:

Jubilees for less than 10K? I paid 4K for real nice AK5's...... 

Sounds like you got a good deal. I used to own Klipschorns (AA - 1982) and enjoyed them immensely. It was later on that I got Jubilees

 

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Jubilees are "too much" for my room. My selected speakers are right (or at least "more right") than Jubs would be, so I set out to make those, within reason and in the realm of what is possible, "The best they can be". Jubs are like using a nuke for a fly swatter here, just don't need or even want "that much" in here.

 

I even investigated going the Volti route with my Belles. Really cool concept, but again too much for that room, whereas I found that simply working within the existing Belle structure (crossovers, solder term midrange, MAHL tweeters) have me where I want to be with those. Giddy, in fact, rather surprised just how good those really are and seek to bring similar qualities to the Cornwall theater system, where the subject header and the challenge of system building and actually getting it in place rears its head again.

 

All part of the hobby and the pursuit, I suppose 🙂

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34 minutes ago, Deang said:

The way some people have been talking around here lately I thought the Jubilee was pretty much out of reach. If what you are saying is true, then I certainly agree. 

Dean, It is good to see you posting again. 

Jubilees are within reach. That never changed. 

 

As far as I can tell, one of the vendors posted (via the forum and Facebook) that the availability of Jubilees was disappearing ("this is your last chance" sort of thing) and that you had to buy a certain package that they offered. Although more recently, the vendor has tried to backtrack on what they originally claimed, but the rumor mill was already in progress. Keep in mind that my interpretation of the history may have some inaccuracies and I am not interested in arguing. 

 

I checked last week (of course,  with a different vendor that I have dealt with). You can still buy the Jubilees for a price that you and I were accustomed to (roughly, since taxes on internet sales are in a state of flux).

 

So, yes my guesstimate of less than 10 grand to get you up and running (Jubilees, DSP and an extra 2 channel amplifier) is accurate. Personally, I thought, and still think, that Jubilees are an incredible deal. The value (performance per dollar) is astounding. 

-Tom

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Some people want the speakers to disappear, others want the room to disappear - or is that the same thing?

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3 minutes ago, Deang said:

Some people want the speakers to disappear, others want the room to disappear - or is that the same thing?

 

Making the speakers disappear is one level and the room disappearing is the next level. The speakers have to be really coherent and the power and the electronics must be at a level of 

almost no EMI distortion.

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3 minutes ago, Fast996 said:

 

Making the speakers disappear is one level and the room disappearing is the next level. The speakers have to be really coherent and the power and the electronics must be at a level of 

almost no EMI distortion.

Perhaps this is a typo. Did you really mean "EMI distortion" ?

 

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...

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6 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

Perhaps this is a typo. Did you really mean "EMI distortion" ?

 

Electro magnetic interference.....of course. Now my experience is with dynamic speakers and not horns which have lower distortion and it's not  EMI. Electronic circuits produce EMI and shielded cables have EMI also. Can you reduce this EMI? A good grounding system can and it doesn't need to be high priced either.

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Lol. EMI is what you get when you cross the streams.

 

Speakers disappearing vs a room disappearing was a joke, but not quite. 

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4 minutes ago, Deang said:

Lol. EMI is what you get when you cross the streams.

 

Speakers disappearing vs a room disappearing was a joke, but not quite. 

No joke Dean

 

https://www.ranecommercial.com/legacy/note166.html#:~:text=He called this voltage “shield,and the two signal conductors.&text=He could easily produce that,constant with the power amplifier.

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Well, my statement was in the context of room acoustics. The Jubilee works in a smaller room because of good pattern control, so everything isn’t splashing off of the ceiling and sidewalls. Some acoustic foam on the sidewalls does improve imaging. So while they do a great job of “getting out of the way” - you can never not notice them, because well - there they are. 
 

I’m back into good monitors again, and they also do a good job of “getting out of the way”, and since they don’t dominate the room visually, they are easier to forget about.

 

The context here is SMALL room: 14’ across and I’m 8’ back - and yes, I used to have Jubes in this room (though I sat 13’ back). 
 

It would be fun to revisit them. 

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Pretty basic you have THD ect and then you have "noise" which is EMI. Some spend thousands on cables and grounding boxes. Just use a good shielded mic cable like Gepco,mogami,gotham,belden and star ground the electrical system or use dedicated lines that are grounded correctly.

Many recording studios set up their power systems where hundreds of feet of cable are extremely quiet. It does effect the system SQ.

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8 hours ago, mopardave said:

Yeah, sadly we can no longer walk into a hifi shop and have a listen. I miss those days.  We used to have 4 high end hifi stores here, one sold Klipsch products.

 

Here in Victoria, we’re kind of blessed to have at least two new hi-fi shops, plus at least one vintage hi-fi shop (where I found my first La Scalas 15 years ago).  As well, just in the downtown area, we have at least 4 record shops, selling new and used discs of all kinds, from LPs to Blu-rays.  One of them also sells concert tickets (not right now, maybe), and has a board showing the upcoming concerts for a couple of months.  Not bad for a small city of 400,000 people.

 

Sound Hounds is the “real” hi-fi shop, carrying most of the line of McIntosh, plus Simaudio Moon, B&W, Harbeth, and so on.  If you’re interested in two different speakers, they’ll set you up in a listening room and leave you with the first pair for a while (20 minutes or more), then will disconnect those speakers and hook up the second pair in the same location.  No rows of speakers and a big switch box.  When I was interested in a used subwoofer, I was told, “Take it home for the weekend.  On Tuesday, come back with either the sub or the money.”  I came back with the money.  Last year, I bought two Paradigm Seismic 110 subs there, at good prices.  It’s the place where everybody knows your name. I’ve been a customer since 2005.

 

Sound Hounds doesn’t stock Klipsch, and I was told that it was for two reasons:  they take up too much room, and in a town this small, the number of potential buyers is small.  He had a point.  I think he could have ordered in a new pair of AL5 La Scalas if I had wanted them, though, since he’s in contact with the supplier, and was able to give me the 2020 prices (I haven’t been there this year).

 

The prices were, in Canadian dollars:

 

La Scala AL5:  $7500 each

Heresy IV:  $2200 each

Klipschorn:  $11,000 each

 

The other hi-fi shop is Atlas Audio Video Unlimited.  They’re more of a mid-fi shop, although they carry most of the Focal speakers, even the $70,000 ones.  I got my living room TV and Yamaha RX-A2060 AV receiver there.

 

Almost forgot, we also have London Drugs, and they do carry Klipsch, although it’s mostly the Reference line.  Their listening room (in the branch closest to me) is a little room off the TV showroom, but you can close the doors when you want to hear some speakers.  Some of the sales staff have never heard of the Heritage Series, but they could probably order them if a customer asked.

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active Studio Monitors  with  software applications--Room EQ  can  reach 123 db levels with 1%THD   --big difference 

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We have a nice one here. The interconnects they sell cost as much as my house. 
 

Music Direct and Crutchfield have liberal return policies - so you get to listen in your own home. 

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I no longer use high priced cables. I use to purchase NBS cables years ago and then realized there were other ways to accomplish a high level of audio reproduction.

The audiophile cable world is nuts IMHO. To each there own though.

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10 hours ago, Bubo said:

 

Agree, it is a game of 1% improvements

 

The improvements are eliminating underperformers

 

There is no substitute for great source recordings.

 

16GA lamp cord is not an under-performer, coax will measure better at frequencies a bat may be able to hear.

 

Old style spring loaded clamp connectors are good enough, possibly more secure and you don't need the expensive connectors. How often do you pull the cables off the amp ?

 

 

16 gauge lamp may sound fine, until you replace it with 12 gauge speaker cable.  I assume you’re talking about speaker cable, and not wiring for your room lights.  The improvement in dynamics and impact is hard to miss, but it takes a change of at least 2 sizes to be noticeable, like from 18 gauge to 14, or 16 to 12, or 12 gauge to 8 gauge, but that last example may be a bit extreme.  Just trying to be absolutely sure those speaker cables are not underperforming...

 

Those old spring clamp connectors do work, just not all that well.  They can’t fit any wire thicker than about 14 gauge, the springs lose tension over time, until their clamping force is really inadequate, and the contact surface is too small.  Sometimes they break, like the ones on old low-end receivers.  It’s not good when you can’t tighten one speaker wire because the spring is worn out, or the plastic piece is broken, and so on. 

 

On my 1980 AudioLogic speakers, I had the old spring clamp connectors replaced with standard 5-way binding posts, which allowed me to use much larger cables, which did sound better.  Now the living room system is all Klipsch, so the AudioLogics are in the bedroom with 12 gauge cable, and they sound fine at the lower levels that I use in the bedroom.

 

The bottom line is that lots of things sound okay, but then you hear something better, and you realize that there’s a real difference, and you like that difference.   Then you wonder why you didn’t make the change a long time ago, since it didn’t cost much for basic speaker wire, in any size.

 

There are all kinds of Klipsch fans on this forum, from the very casual to the very dedicated, who want the best sound they can afford.  Not everyone will agree with me, but those who know that detail changes can produce audible improvements know what I mean.

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