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mopardave

The price of hi quality audio

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19 hours ago, Islander said:

 

 

 

There are all kinds of Klipsch fans on this forum, from the very casual to the very dedicated, who want the best sound they can afford.  Not everyone will agree with me, but those who know that detail changes can produce audible improvements know what I mean.

 

Another project aka test

 

I'll have to set an amp up with speakers run in mono

and see if there is a noticeable difference in sound.

Best

M

 

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4 hours ago, mopardave said:

That's just crazy to me.   Here's something else that looks promising, Primaluna EVO 400 for $4700.  Anyone have any experience with this or any of the Toolshed amps?  Still liking the Ayon spirit v as well.   

I have a Primaluna EVO 400 and I think it sounds fantastic. I have rolled some Brimar Preamp tubes into it and replaced the great sounding EL34s with 8 Kt 150s - I love my EVO 400

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1 hour ago, Bubo said:

 

Another project aka test

 

I'll have to set an amp up with speakers run in mono

and see if there is a noticeable difference in sound.

Best

M

 

 

 

There you go.  You won’t notice any changes in clarity.  What I notice most with the bigger speaker cable is that the sounds of transients, like drumbeats or handclaps, sound more realistic.  Applause sounds like clapping human hands, not distant surf.

 

Good luck with the project.  Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither was the ideal audio system.  All the little steps do add up, though.

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4 hours ago, Islander said:

 When I was interested in a used subwoofer, I was told, “Take it home for the weekend.  On Tuesday, come back with either the sub or the money.”  I came back with the money.

Reminds me of this.

 

 

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Damping factor of the amplifier (speaker load impedance/amplifier impedance) diminishes as the speaker wire resistance increases.

ADCOM 400 DF = 0.02Ω internal impedance.  Add your speaker wire resistance and recalulate - you will be amazed how most systems have meager 40-50 DF's even with #16 or #14 speaker wiring!  Do the math on your system!  Look up the Ω/foot on your wire gauge, multiply by TWICE the cable length to calculate the round-trip electrical resistance, you will see!  #12 silver-plated FULTON is magic!

 

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I think that goes more like the damping factor of an amplifier is reduced by any resistance between it and the speaker.  The bigger and shorter the wire (the lower the resistance), the less the damping factor is reduced, and the better the amplifier’s ability to control the speaker cone or diaphragm.

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6 hours ago, HiFi Heaven said:

Damping factor of the amplifier (speaker load impedance/amplifier impedance) diminishes as the speaker wire resistance increases.

ADCOM 400 DF = 0.02Ω internal impedance.  Add your speaker wire resistance and recalulate - you will be amazed how most systems have meager 40-50 DF's even with #16 or #14 speaker wiring!  Do the math on your system!  Look up the Ω/foot on your wire gauge, multiply by TWICE the cable length to calculate the round-trip electrical resistance, you will see!  #12 silver-plated FULTON is magic!

 

I have some analysis cable i have on my SuperHeresy,  I'll give it a try on the Cornscala.   I used to run monster cable on everything years ago, then with all the talk about lamp cord being good enough, i started buying 16g speaker wire for everything when i needed more wire.    Looks like i may have to go back to the good stuff.

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10 hours ago, Fido said:

I have a Primaluna EVO 400 and I think it sounds fantastic. I have rolled some Brimar Preamp tubes into it and replaced the great sounding EL34s with 8 Kt 150s - I love my EVO 400

Nice to hear that.  I also have been researching the Toolshed amps and the Ayon spirit V.    Too bad we can't walk into a store and listen to these before purchase.  I would like to know the tonal differences before spending that kind of money.

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Someone did a writeup about their Toolshed amp here on these forums recently.

 

 

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14 hours ago, mopardave said:

That's just crazy to me.   Here's something else that looks promising, Primaluna EVO 400 for $4700.  Anyone have any experience with this or any of the Toolshed amps?  Still liking the Ayon spirit v as well.   

There are several Primaluna EVO 400s on USAUDIOMART.  One in CA for $3800, one in AR for $4000, one in TN for $4000.  If you want to pay even less look at the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP (integrated amp) the predecessor to the EVO series and every bit as good.

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20 minutes ago, Tarheel said:

There are several Primaluna EVO 400s on USAUDIOMART.  One in CA for $3800, one in AR for $4000, one in TN for $4000.  If you want to pay even less look at the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP (integrated amp) the predecessor to the EVO series and every bit as good.

I doubt anyone could hear any difference between the EVO 400 or the Dialogue Premium HP. Upscale Audio had both new ones available when I purchased my EVO 400 but I was buying new and wanted the latest just because. 

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2 hours ago, Fido said:

I doubt anyone could hear any difference between the EVO 400 or the Dialogue Premium HP. Upscale Audio had both new ones available when I purchased my EVO 400 but I was buying new and wanted the latest just because. 

Didn’t know that.  I will check out the Dialogue and what is the EVO?

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Funny watching this tube discussion while I’m eyeing a 50 lb. heater from ATI. 
 

I got lucky with my sub integration, but I really want bass management. So something like the Anthem STR looks interesting. 
 

I’ve come full circle almost. 

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2 hours ago, mopardave said:

Didn’t know that.  I will check out the Dialogue and what is the EVO?

The EVO line replaced the Dialogue line - just all the latest greatest parts in the EVO line so I said sure just give me the EVO lol

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5 hours ago, Fido said:

I doubt anyone could hear any difference between the EVO 400 or the Dialogue Premium HP. Upscale Audio had both new ones available when I purchased my EVO 400 but I was buying new and wanted the latest just because. 

I watched several videos and read some on both the EVO400 and the Dialogue.  Very impressed with these amps.  I think a Primaluna is in my future. I would like to see a video from Kevin@Upscale on the Aton amps as well.  Don’t think he had done one thou.    

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2 minutes ago, Fido said:

The EVO line replaced the Dialogue line - just all the latest greatest parts in the EVO line so I said sure just give me the EVO lol

Yeah, for sure. Where are these Primanula amps built, Holland or Japan?

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1 minute ago, mopardave said:

I watched several videos and read some on both the EVO400 and the Dialogue.  Very impressed with these amps.  I think a Primaluna is in my future. I would like to see a video from Kevin@Upscale on the Aton amps as well.  Don’t think he had done one thou.    

Kevin is a principle in Primaluna. I do not know if he carries the Aton Amp line.

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10 minutes ago, Fido said:

Kevin is a principle in Primaluna. I do not know if he carries the Aton Amp line.

Don’t think he does.  Would just like to watch a video on the Ayon amps that’s not in Dutch or German.

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Just my unimportant 2cents. I have heard a few tube amps over the last 30 years. Some are very impressive at the beginning. For example, I have an Audion Silvernight 300B in my small collection. What a holographic spatiality. Or old Leak Stereo 20. What a warm inviting sound, especially with older jazz and classical recordings.
But at some point something starts to get on your nerves. Be it too little pressure with the 300B or a colouration with the Leak Stereo20 that makes everything sound the same. I have used other tube amplifiers. It's not so easy with the preamplifiers either. After various devices, the EAR 864 was my favourite for years. I had it connected to a Mcintosh 2102, a nice pairing. This power amp can still drive more difficult speakers well.
But now I want to say which two amplifiers have stood the test of time over many years. Because...some qualities, that the amplifier becomes your friend and companion, I can only appreciate and identify over a long time. Of all the amplifiers, there are two models left that I can always listen to without getting tired. One is the Quad II, which is so beautifully balanced and so unagitated. By the way, it's fantastic with Klipsch Heritage speakers, no matter how old or new. The other is the amplifier that I have been listening to every day for 18 years now. It's an MC275 Mk4 from 2002, with the output transformers that Mk4 got first and that are still in use today. With the screw terminals and the adjustable RCA inputs (but I use XLR).
I bought the 275 for €2,800 in Switzerland in 2003, it was only a year young used. I didn't want to buy more but the dealer had offered me an original sealed packed virgin C22CE preamp from 1996. Ok, I had bought it for 1.900€ and thought that I could surely sell it for that money. 
Back home I had it connected together with the MC275 just for a try. It had blown me away. Since 2003 I have never felt the need to have anything else than this combination of 275 and C22CE.

Firstly, this balanced and fatigue-free very musical sound of this combination. On the other hand, the universality. From my Klipsch Jubilee passive to the small LS3/5a, the MC275 can really drive anything or at least most of not too exotic speaker loads. My favourite speakers, my 1977 Lascala are a marriage made in heaven with the 275. Even though I don't really need that much power. But the 275 is like a small V8 engine and the Lascala is like that V8 in a light agile sporty car.

If I would invest 6000€ or $ today, it would be immediately again a e.g. MC275 Mk4 because it is not as expensive as younger versions but very good. I didn't like the 275CE from the 90s, it had different output transformers than the vintage versions from the 60s and worse than from the Mk4. And the new LED tube illuminated versions are not my cup of tea.
A side effect that is not as important to me as the always musical sound is the safe investment. I wouldn't shy away from spending $1,500 more because I'm sure you'll get that money back at any time.
Another positive aspect. You can hear a better tube. But the C22CE and the Mc275 don't sound bad with any tube. And...they are very gentle in the wear of the tubes. The power tubes last a long time because they are driven very conservatively.

Sounds like I am a Mcintosh rep but I am only a satisfied customer.
 

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