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The price of hi quality audio


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52 minutes ago, KT88 said:

Just my unimportant 2cents. I have heard a few tube amps over the last 30 years. Some are very impressive at the beginning. For example, I have an Audion Silvernight 300B in my small collection. What a holographic spatiality. Or old Leak Stereo 20. What a warm inviting sound, especially with older jazz and classical recordings.
But at some point something starts to get on your nerves. Be it too little pressure with the 300B or a colouration with the Leak Stereo20 that makes everything sound the same. I have used other tube amplifiers. It's not so easy with the preamplifiers either. After various devices, the EAR 864 was my favourite for years. I had it connected to a Mcintosh 2102, a nice pairing. This power amp can still drive more difficult speakers well.
But now I want to say which two amplifiers have stood the test of time over many years. Because...some qualities, that the amplifier becomes your friend and companion, I can only appreciate and identify over a long time. Of all the amplifiers, there are two models left that I can always listen to without getting tired. One is the Quad II, which is so beautifully balanced and so unagitated. By the way, it's fantastic with Klipsch Heritage speakers, no matter how old or new. The other is the amplifier that I have been listening to every day for 18 years now. It's an MC275 Mk4 from 2002, with the output transformers that Mk4 got first and that are still in use today. With the screw terminals and the adjustable RCA inputs (but I use XLR).
I bought the 275 for €2,800 in Switzerland in 2003, it was only a year young used. I didn't want to buy more but the dealer had offered me an original sealed packed virgin C22CE preamp from 1996. Ok, I had bought it for 1.900€ and thought that I could surely sell it for that money. 
Back home I had it connected together with the MC275 just for a try. It had blown me away. Since 2003 I have never felt the need to have anything else than this combination of 275 and C22CE.

Firstly, this balanced and fatigue-free very musical sound of this combination. On the other hand, the universality. From my Klipsch Jubilee passive to the small LS3/5a, the MC275 can really drive anything or at least most of not too exotic speaker loads. My favourite speakers, my 1977 Lascala are a marriage made in heaven with the 275. Even though I don't really need that much power. But the 275 is like a small V8 engine and the Lascala is like that V8 in a light agile sporty car.

If I would invest 6000€ or $ today, it would be immediately again a e.g. MC275 Mk4 because it is not as expensive as younger versions but very good. I didn't like the 275CE from the 90s, it had different output transformers than the vintage versions from the 60s and worse than from the Mk4. And the new LED tube illuminated versions are not my cup of tea.
A side effect that is not as important to me as the always musical sound is the safe investment. I wouldn't shy away from spending $1,500 more because I'm sure you'll get that money back at any time.
Another positive aspect. You can hear a better tube. But the C22CE and the Mc275 don't sound bad with any tube. And...they are very gentle in the wear of the tubes. The power tubes last a long time because they are driven very conservatively.

Sounds like I am a Mcintosh rep but I am only a satisfied customer.
 

Cool, looks like you found a great combo.  I have read many times that Klipsch and McIntosh are a very good match.

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1 hour ago, KT88 said:

Sounds like I am a Mcintosh rep but I am only a satisfied customer.
 

Mc is very dependable high quality,  engineering and manufacturing.

Always a safe and reliable choice.

 

Out of curiosity, how well known are Mc and Klipsch in Germany ?

 

I remember Grundig, and Dual from a long time ago......

 

Dual TT is back, how much they are selling, don't know.

 

Just checked out Grundig, times have changed.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Fido said:

I have a Primaluna EVO 400 and I think it sounds fantastic. I have rolled some Brimar Preamp tubes into it and replaced the great sounding EL34s with 8 Kt 150s - I love my EVO 400

How are you driving your subwoofer with that integrated amplifier?

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23 hours ago, Fast996 said:

 I paid 4K for real nice AK5's...... 

2006   or later  AK-5 for 4k$  is a Fantastic, given away deal  ----Khorns 1989 --AK-3  4k$  is a very good deal -  

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Bubo, it started when I had a music teacher who also gave me piano lessons. I was 15, it was 1974, he had a MA230. Ok, with Bose 901 but at least the old Alnico version. Despite the speakers, the Mc sound was burnt into me. 
Regarding your question, brands like Grundig and Dual were very popular and successful after the Second World War in young West Germany. Grundig was a bit more for very normal people, Dual was a bit more refined but affordable for almost everyone. That was the mono era and Grundig made very nice tube radios for the kitchen and living room. Televisions, too, of course. Dual has always been a pure audio brand. I got my first mono record player as a gift from my father in 1966 when I was 7 years old, a very simple Dual, the lid was the loudspeaker. I loved it and listened to all the Beatle, Rolling Stones and other singles. In 1972, my father bought a stereo system, which only did a small circle of people in Germany at the time. He had dreamed about it for a long time. A Sansui QX 6500 receiver with Dual turntable 1219 and Braun TG1000 tape recorder and Sansui SP2500 speakers at the front, it was a pseudo 4 channel system. .   Because our house was occupied by American army in 1945 as an officers' mess, my father had early contact with jazz music. He was hired as an interpreter by the Americans at the age of 15 because he had learned English at school; only a few children could attend a grammar school. Some of the military had record players and jazz records. That was the start and he this to him new sound.


Grundig became less popular when the Japanese conquered the hi-fi market for the masses in the early 70s. Dual managed to hold on, primarily with record players. We subsequently had a 701 in the family, it was the first with a direct drive. I personally liked Thorens more.
Back to Mc and Klipsch. At that time it was a very illustrious small circle that could afford something like that in Germany or even knew what it was.
Since the mid 80s there has been a hifiscene that knows what these brands are. Mc stands for very high quality, but there is also a lot of expensive competition, also US brands were successful like Mark Levinson or Krell, later when tubes refreshed in the market also Conrad Johnson or Audio Research in addition to the sand amps.

Klipsch Heritage series has always had a dedicated but small fan base, but most hifi lovers prefer a more comfortable and visually and acoustically pleasing loudspeakers with higher WAF if you know what I mean. Those who have money like to buy Sonus Faber or things like that. Klipsch is also quite well represented among these people with its Hifi series of slim towers. One must also take into account that most homes and living rooms are really smaller here than in US houses which is an issue to get a KH e.g. But I think that types like new Cornwalls or 

Heresy spaeker could get a renaissance. I don't know how Dual is doing today, Grundig is not relevant in the hifi scene and the younger generation does not know the brand any more at all.

I have a positive feeling that a new generation is about to rediscover real and good sound which is associated with bigger speakers, horn speakers…the opposite of now still popular small bluetooth cubes. My son is of course a bit influenced by his father who built his first horn soeakers at the age of 16 and a KH bass unit when beeing 19. But he and his friends are very open minded to rediscover good sound when visiting my place at home.

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3 hours ago, KT88 said:

Bose 901 but at least the old Alnico version.

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popular in their day, also good sounding

Despite the speakers, the Mc sound was burnt into me. 

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For me Mc the benchmark to judge all others

 


Regarding your question, brands like Grundig and Dual were very popular and successful after the Second World War in young West Germany.

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I still have 2 dual TT from 1975 era

Foolishly I gave away my Thorens TD 126, great TT


Klipsch Heritage series has always had a dedicated but small fan base, but most hifi lovers prefer a more comfortable and visually and acoustically pleasing loudspeakers with higher WAF if you know what I mean. Those who have money like to buy Sonus Faber or things like that. Klipsch is also quite well represented among these people with its Hifi series of slim towers. One must also take into account that most homes and living rooms are really smaller here than in US houses which is an issue to get a KH e.g.

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Design is art, and there is something to be said for art.

But I think that types like new Cornwalls or 

Heresy speaker could get a renaissance.

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Klipsch has rediscovered their heritage line, and has invested both engineering and marketing into it, with success at least in terms of buzz, not sure if the sales followed. The reviews on this side of the Atlantic melt down when they have the LaScalas or Fortes or CW in their home studios.

I have a positive feeling that a new generation is about to rediscover real and good sound which is associated with bigger speakers, horn speakers…the opposite of now still popular small bluetooth cubes. My son is of course a bit influenced by his father who built his first horn speakers at the age of 16 and a KH bass unit when being 19. But he and his friends are very open minded to rediscover good sound when visiting my place at home.

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Here too, we have to give sony ipod and iphone with $2 ear buds credit for saving stereo, headphones and bringing Large speakers and TTs back from the edge.

Kids freak out when they put Pink Floyd records on the parents stereo that was stored down the basement.

There are now 18,000 vinyl records back in print or should I say pressed, and TTs are selling like hot cakes to the younger generation.

First you acquire fine taste, then you have to get the money to pay for it.

Spargel season yet?  I ate lots of it in Munich years ago, Berlin not so much.  Lots of good memories.

 

 

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4 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

How are you driving your subwoofer with that integrated amplifier?

HSU comes with a built in Plate Amp

 

Amplifier Power (RMS)2000 W Short Term, 600 W Continuous

Hybrid Tuning18 Hz Ported, 22 Hz Ported or Sealed

Low End Extension (+/- 2 dB)

17 Hz (1 port open)

22 Hz (2 ports open)

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10 minutes ago, Deang said:

What he meant was, how are you feeding it a signal - does the integrated have a sub out or pre out?

Yes the Primaluna EVO 400 has a sub pre out.

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7 hours ago, Bubo said:

Spargel season yet?  I ate lots of it in Munich years ago, Berlin not so much.  Lots of good memories.

Yes, we like it a lot, with ham or a steak, cooked potatoes and hot liquid lemon butter. In Cologne sub area are quite some farmers around who sell their home grown Spargel (Asparagus).

 

7 hours ago, Bubo said:

Klipsch has rediscovered their heritage line, and has invested both engineering and marketing into it, with success at least in terms of buzz, not sure if the sales followed.

After all, they seem to strike a chord with the zeitgeist at Klipsch. As you say, the new generation loves vinyl, analogue touch and feel. That also fits in with the newer hand crafted movement. I love the USA and I have been to your beautiful country some times in the last 11 years when I could afford it, also in areas that are not only visited by tourists like Kentucky which I also liked very much and some areas look like my home in Westphalia in the countryside...but with a subtropical climate in Kentucky.
What I noticed very positively in the USA already in 2010 was the movement of very tasty beer from small breweries, just as a small example.
Another movement among young people is, many are climate committed and they want electric cars and not to drive themselves anymore (at least the young urbans, the people in the country urgently need their real cars). But I still have a 1974 vintage car and then my son goes crazy for it and want to drive it. Pure analogue.

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4 hours ago, KT88 said:

 Pure analogue.

 

In the way of pure analog autos

This was my favorite car that I owned

In line 5 Diesel, solid mechanical injectors, mechanical transmission

vacuum actuated accessories, heated doors

Would run away from gas cars on the highway

Rock solid at 100 mph

 

The seats and radio sucked, both ripped out

seats replaced with Ricarros

Mercedes-Benz-1983-300SD-Turbo-Diesel-Se

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4 hours ago, Marvel said:

The craft breweries are everywhere and you can find some great beers! Kentucky has some beautiful areas...

 

Speaking of KY,  have you seen any of the Elk they re-introduced to the area a few years ago ?

Magnificent animals.

 

Up from 1,500,  20 years ago when they were re-introduced.

https://fw.ky.gov/Hunt/Documents/Elk/2020-2021ElkReport.pdf

 

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The current estimated population is 15,876, animals.

Kentucky has the highest elk population of any state east of the Mississippi River

 

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3 hours ago, Bubo said:

In the way of pure analog autos

This was my favorite car that I owned

In line 5 Diesel, solid mechanical injectors, mechanical transmission

vacuum actuated accessories, heated doors

Would run away from gas cars on the highway

Rock solid at 100 mph

A very good choice, Bubo. W126 was one of the best cars ever made in my view in terms of reliability, comfort, drivability, safety, rust protection (later ones were not as good until 2010 re rust. My father had one new in 1981, gas engine. We have a 1992 w124 coupe (in the US it was only available as a cabriolet as far I know) and my 1968 230 /8 since 1994, both cars I am second owner. Beside Merc there is a vintage car from Zuffenhausen in the garage which I imported myself from California 8 years ago, not an expensive trailer queen but a 1975 911S narrow body G model as a reliable driver to have some fun.

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