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Heresy II Midrange Diaphragm Question


Bulkogi
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Hi Everyone,

 

I posted recently about refinishing a pair of 1989 Heresy IIs I bought years ago that have mostly been in storage.  This is a follow up post about internal refurbishing.

 

The speakers sound really good for the most part.  I'd forgotten how intoxicating these things are - pure fun!  But they do lack top end sparkle, which surprised me a bit (but I see mentioned as not unusual in the forums here).  And, of course, they are 32 years old. So, yesterday I sent the crossover / speaker input assemblies to Crites for their rebuild service and purchased titanium diaphragms for the tweeters (all will be sent back to me together).

 

Here are my questions:  

 

I am not yet convinced that the titanium diaphragms will suit me, as I'm generally not a fan of metal tweeters and I really liked the factory tweeters in my KLF 20s.  If I decide the titanium is a bit too bright, and the existing diaphragms are still too dull with the rebuilt crossovers, what would my options be?  I see that Simply Speakers sells replacement phenolic diaphragms.  Are they likely to sound more lively than the existing ones?  Put another way, do phenolic diaphragms become dull over time, or am I likely just hearing how they've always sounded.

 

My second question is the same really, but about the midrange diaphragms.  They sound quite good to me, actually, but would replacement phenolic diaphragms likely sound better?  Have people experienced a dulling down of the Heresy II midrange horns over time?

 

Thanks for any input,

 

Josh

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To the OP, please let us know your impressions of both the new networks and the renovated tweeters by the great Crites family.  Additionally, I think you should listen to the midranges before committing to "new" diaphragms.  Have had several pairs of H2, and never experienced an issue or any disappointment with the sound quality.

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24 minutes ago, RandyH000 said:

the  Klipsch titanium diaphragms are  not as bright , they are  manufactured by klipsch  for the Heresy  speakers -they are the  real McCoy  -

could someone who works at klipsch or a moderator confirm or deny this that these are in fact made by klipsch. i want to keep my speakers all klipsch all the time.

the real McCoy - i would like to get the Walter Brennan series

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4 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

 The Crites Ti diaphragms?

 

 you mean ,aftermarket  clones made in Asia--they're not "   Crites Diaphragms "   Crites does not manufacture diaphragms , they resell aftermarket parts -big difference

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7 minutes ago, RandyH000 said:

 you mean ,aftermarket  clones made in Asia--they're not "   Crites Diaphragms "   Crites does not manufacture diaphragms , they resell aftermarket parts -big difference

www

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Regarding midrange membranes. I have K55V from 1977, they work excellently even today. If you have not yet received the shipment from Crites, please ask him to send new rubber gaskets for the midrange driver. They make a big difference after 40 years because the old rubber seals have most likely dried out or crumbled. This was the case with my 1977 Lascala. These gaskets are easily placed between the K55V driver and the horn after you remove the old gaskets. Then screw the driver back on bravely hand tight. The gaskets will make a difference to get the horn system airtight again and allow the full sound pressure concerning the whole freq. range of the driver. The original diaphragms could be good for another 40 years.

 

Here you can see a pic of the gaskets. The crumbled gaskets do not allow to tighten the drivers smoothly they just stopp turning when screwed on. With the new gaskets you can dose the force how tight you go.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/200733-81-heresy-restoration-recommendations-please/&do=findComment&comment=2634406

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1 hour ago, Deang said:

I just noticed the title of the thread says midrange diaphragms, but the body of the post says tweeter diaphragms. 
 

Time for my old man nap. 

Sorry, Dean, you are correct.  I don't know why I limited the title.  I am actually asking about both.  It's just that I already have purchased the Crites titanium tweeters and am wondering also whether anyone replaces HII midrange membranes and, if so, what differences they hear.  The title is a bit misleading.

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Ok, this is not a big financial investment. Thanks for sharing your experience, Dean. Then I will try it out as well. What is the difference? More clarity, less distortion, louder or (also) more higher frequencies? I mean another set of phenolic diaphragms, no different materials regarding the midrange.

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The midrange is complicated. We have a love hate relationship with them. Personally, I would stay with phenolics in the midrange. Also, if move in that direction, you will need to add a bandpass circuit to your network. 

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12 minutes ago, KT88 said:

What is the difference? More clarity, less distortion, louder or (also) more higher frequencies?

Clearer, which also made it seem like it had a little bit more output. 
 

I actually didn’t think there was anything wrong with them. It was part of an experiment - comparing the K-55-V with the two piece phase plug to the Allen A-55-G. There was a good deal of difference in the sound, and I began to wonder about the condition of the diaphragms. The folks on the Altec Lansing forum talked me into changing out the diaphragms because of their age. After doing it, I had a difficult time hearing much of a difference between the two drivers. There was still a difference, but not like before, and I never developed a real preference. 
 

We tend not to notice small changes over time, or know what is “right” without a reliable point of reference or measurements. 

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Thanks for your reply, Dean. Concerning the tweeters. As I want to stay with my original K77 (principally) and because I basically like alnico magnets I am wondering if new diaphragms for the K77 alnico would also make a difference. I like the sound like it is now but they could be a tad brighter. 

So would new diaphragms (no titanium in my case but good old phenolic ones) of the K77 make a difference? (Wishful thinking).

Or not, a) because it is the magnets which are becoming weaker over the decades 

or b) because the current offerings of K77 diaphragms do not share the high quality of the old ones (when they were new)

I would like it to hear that re the K77 the diaphragms would also make a positive difference.

Or should I go for K77M to achieve the goal? My concern would be that the K77M is brighter and louder and good for rock music but would loose perhaps this special subtile performance the alnicos offer when a sound like strings starts out of silence?

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Dean, your description regarding the K55V diaphragms is very believable and so is the reason for your attempt (the guys of the Lansing forum).

The result also seems very comprehensible. I would describe it like this in my words: The old diaphragm of the K55V does not get so bad over all the decades that a change seems urgent (unlike it becomes urgent after a while to change amplifier tubes or to clean the window). But when you hear new diaphragm in comparison it is still a significant difference.I will definitely give it a try after your explanation.

BTW I‘m wondering if a brand new Atlas driver PD5-VH would perhaps even add magnetic strength (or not) and therefore high freq. sound or if it is comparably good just to change the diaphragm of a 45 year old K55V. I am wondering because the difference of costs is not so very big for what I could get. On the other side the new PD5-VH measures not higher than 4500 Hz in their own sheet. But that is measured without a K400 horn. BTW I have AA type xover and therefore the higher the mids go the better.

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50 minutes ago, KT88 said:

Ok, this is not a big financial investment. Thanks for sharing your experience, Dean. Then I will try it out as well. What is the difference? More clarity, less distortion, louder or (also) more higher frequencies? I mean another set of phenolic diaphragms, no different materials regarding the midrange.

I replaced 4 k55V diaphragms that were  40 years old ,  the older k55V diaphragms  showed  a  discoloration on the dome material versus the new PD5VH  diaphragm , and that alone convinced me  that they needed  replacement -    needless to say , the sound improvement was worth the expense of 90$ each with tax 

 

here is an example of old vs new , the lead material  has also been changed from a flat to  a round wire lead ,  you have to be very careful when soldering the new leads ---

 

 

--EV Georgian rebuild. - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio CommunityKlipsch / Atlas Factory Speaker Diaphragm D20, PD60, K-55-X, K-55-V,  K-55-M, 127127

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28 minutes ago, KT88 said:

 

So would new diaphragms of the K77 make a difference? (Wishful thinking

the older beryllium leads EV T35 Diaphragms were superior quality   --the current best quality diaphragms are  sold in cups --

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