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Heritage HT question/Advice


Smitty8451
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On 5/30/2021 at 9:31 PM, oldred said:

+1 to what Willland said.....

 

George

+2 with William

 Forte's imho would be over kill for surounds. From my experience good surrounds speakers will add better ambience that a full sized speak. Fortes not needed and a waste of money with your present system. .

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15 hours ago, Lbk said:

+2 with William

 Forte's imho would be over kill for surounds. From my experience good surrounds speakers will add better ambience that a full sized speak. Fortes not needed and a waste of money with your present system. .

 

His present system consists of 3 AL5 La Scalas across the front, so Fortes would be a fine match with them.  They are the economy choice.  The decadent setup would be with 5 La Scala AL5s.

 

Maybe I’m biased, because I have JubScala IIs as mains and La Scalas as surround speakers.  Those La Scalas are the best match for the mains, and serve the system well.  The system sounds great, in 2 Channel or Surround mode.

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38 minutes ago, Islander said:

 

His present system consists of 3 AL5 La Scalas across the front, so Fortes would be a fine match with them.  They are the economy choice.  The decadent setup would be with 5 La Scala AL5s.

 

Maybe I’m biased, because I have JubScala IIs as mains and La Scalas as surround speakers.

 

As the owner of an HT that uses five Cornwalls, I agree 100%. But in a pinch/economy/many reasonable scenarios the Fortes running back is just fine. I did Chorus Is on my rears for a time, then played Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature" and similar multichannel audio tracks and went all Cornwall with all identical drivers without much real thought. I suspect that same era Heresys would have been a better choice if seeking smaller surround speakers, much like the Fortes are good matches in this scenario. Most will find the "same series" like with the Forte IV/LaScala AL5 will be wonderfulness in it's own right, but there is something to be said for a room that would allow for five/six/seven of all the same speakers in the "base ring" of an HT. It's really something to experience, but there's certainly times where the practicality of that doesn't fit. Of course, it's our job to test that 🙂

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Can anyone comment on pairing Cornwall IV LR mains with an RC-64 III center? I can't feasibly use another Heritage line speaker for space reasons, not even a Heresy. So I really need a traditional center channel. Surely it would be much better than my current center channel, R-25C.....

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1 hour ago, Audible Nectar said:

 

As the owner of an HT that uses five Cornwalls, I agree 100%. But in a pinch/economy/many reasonable scenarios the Fortes running back is just fine. I did Chorus Is on my rears for a time, then played Steely Dan's "Two Against Nature" and similar multichannel audio tracks and went all Cornwall with all identical drivers without much real thought. I suspect that same era Heresys would have been a better choice if seeking smaller surround speakers, much like the Fortes are good matches in this scenario. Most will find the "same series" like with the Forte IV/LaScala AL5 will be wonderfulness in it's own right, but there is something to be said for a room that would allow for five/six/seven of all the same speakers in the "base ring" of an HT. It's really something to experience, but there's certainly times where the practicality of that doesn't fit. Of course, it's our job to test that 🙂

 

Yes, and we’re great enablers, too.  I started out with a pair of La Scalas, and joined the Forum a couple of months later.  Two years after that, I had eight Heritage speakers in my place.  So there’s you with your all-Cornwall surround system, and Indyklipschfan has a 7-Scala Surround home theatre, complete with ticket booth.  There are likely some other single-model surround setups.  Mine’s a bit mixed up, but it’s pretty close.  I’m pleased with it, and it just needs a bit of dialling-in to reach its full potential.  I’m thinking of getting some kind of stiff plastic sheets to put under the JubScalas, so I can easily shift them around to experiment with their direction and placing.  It’s a pity that the LS2s don’t have the flat bottoms and wide steel button feet of the older La Scalas.  Those speakers are really easy to shift around on the carpet.

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12 minutes ago, CoryGillmore said:

Can anyone comment on pairing Cornwall IV LR mains with an RC-64 III center? I can't feasibly use another Heritage line speaker for space reasons, not even a Heresy. So I really need a traditional center channel. Surely it would be much better than my current center channel, R-25C.....

 

No room for a Heresy on its side?  They sound fine like that.  Mine used to fit just fine into my old TV stand, then I got a Belle, which is a TV stand.

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28 minutes ago, Islander said:

 

Yes, and we’re great enablers, too.  I started out with a pair of La Scalas, and joined the Forum a couple of months later.  Two years after that, I had eight Heritage speakers in my place.  So there’s you with your all-Cornwall surround system, and Indyklipschfan has a 7-Scala Surround home theatre, complete with ticket booth.  There are likely some other single-model surround setups.  Mine’s a bit mixed up, but it’s pretty close.  I’m pleased with it, and it just needs a bit of dialling-in to reach its full potential.  I’m thinking of getting some kind of stiff plastic sheets to put under the JubScalas, so I can easily shift them around to experiment with their direction and placing.  It’s a pity that the LS2s don’t have the flat bottoms and wide steel button feet of the older La Scalas.  Those speakers are really easy to shift around on the carpet.

 

 

There is the idea of "enabling" but from the "other side" the idea of fully informing the poster as to their options. It comes down to this: Movie houses don't use "smaller than mains" speakers behind those screens, and neither do we.

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6 hours ago, Audible Nectar said:

Movie houses don't use "smaller than mains" speakers behind those screens, and neither do we.

 

Indeed.

 

An Altec configuration in a 70mm equipped theater with a slightly curved screen.main-qimg-47cee136471930a11f5a34e2627951c7

 

Below is a JBL ("Jim Lansing" commissioned by Ampex on behalf of Todd-AO) version for a 70mm equipped theater.  There would be 5 of these babies behind the screen, each with 4-15" horn loaded woofers (154-Cs?) image.jpeg.ee835985a268591759ca393a152fbba7.jpegand smaller surrounds around the theater (not really small, though; they used JBL c40s for surround in one 70 mm theater I knew, thumbnail 2 - Pair of Vintage JBL C40 Harkness Speakers from 1960s with 15" woofers, 3 way horn loaded, probably 6 + cu. ft..  In contrast, our local regular 35mm theater, for surround duty, , used JBL D130s -- 15" "extended range" in a very small boximgbg.jpg

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11 hours ago, Islander said:

 

His present system consists of 3 AL5 La Scalas across the front, so Fortes would be a fine match with them.  They are the economy choice.  The decadent setup would be with 5 La Scala AL5s.

 

Maybe I’m biased, because I have JubScala IIs as mains and La Scalas as surround speakers.  Those La Scalas are the best match for the mains, and serve the system well.  The system sounds great, in 2 Channel or Surround mode.

I think he has 2 lascala's in front and was considering a third for center channel. His surrounds I believe are true surrounds and not full range like a forte.

 

My system did consist of chorus II mains and a DIY chorus center, front stage stage. Rear surround was chorus I's. It did sound good but I lost the chorus I's when I got a deal on 4 revel c30 surrounds. I like the revel surrounds better, I liked the more ambient sound. The chorus I's at times seemed to draw the sound to the rear. 

 

This has been my experience with full range surrounds, ymmv. Not trying to argue with anyone I am far from an expect. I ran middle level onkyo 7.2 recieve in an 11 by 17 by 8 ft room. Maybe room size, conditioning etc. could other be other factors to consider? Just trying to help from my experience. Islander I would love to hear your system, I am sure it sound fantastic! Curious how big is the room your setup is in, thanks.

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Your setup sounds pretty good.  I’m a bit surprised that you weren’t satisfied with the effect of having 4 Chorus speakers, but every room is different.  I’ve found that we build up our systems, reach a plateau, and are satisfied for a while.  Then we get some ideas, and the climb starts again.  Ideally, you reach a plateau that satisfies you, hopefully not just because you’ve run out of money.

 

My room is 18’ x 19’ x 8’, with the right side opening toward the dining room.  This means no corner on that side, so the Left speaker is about 1m/3’ from its side wall, which has a baseboard heater, so I couldn’t place the speaker in the corner anyway.  The speakers are toed in a bit, but I’ll continue to experiment with that.

 

The sofa is about 2m/6.5’ from the rear wall, with the surround La Scalas each about 1.2m/4’ from my head, due to having a baseboard heater on one side and a wood stove on the other side.  The stove is never used, due to the big speaker right in front of it.  This works great when the AVR is set to 9 Channel Stereo and the volume is low, because then the Surround Scalas are like big super comfortable headphones.  In normal Surround Decode, the rear Scalas don’t draw as much attention to themselves, because then their volume is lower and they aren’t localizable, since then the sound field floats in space, apparently independent of the speakers.

 

I sit about 3.5m/12’ from the Main Left and Right speakers.  They’re 12.5 cm/5’ from the front wall at their nearest points.  The Paradigm subs are inboard of the Main speakers.  The centre Belle is a bit back of a line between the JubScalas, so it’s just a bit closer than the Left and Right speakers.  The room has plush carpeting, with a big soft La-Z-Boy reclining sofa and armchair, so it’s not too lively.  As well as all the speakers, it has a big bookcase, so I hope it’s sort of “conditioned”, without using any visible acoustic tweaks.

 

Feel free to ask a bit more about the room and setup if you still have any questions.  Where are you located?

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Thanks guys, my third AL5 comes in on Monday, and can’t wait.  Currently listing to “echo’s” by Pink Floyd and the sound stage with my Rogue Atlas is making me “Comfortably Numb”.  I’m in Sutherlin Oregon, pictures coming soon.

 

😁😁

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37 minutes ago, Smitty8451 said:

Thanks guys, my third AL5 comes in on Monday, and can’t wait.  Currently listing to “echo’s” by Pink Floyd and the sound stage with my Rogue Atlas is making me “Comfortably Numb”.  I’m in Sutherlin Oregon, pictures coming soon.

 

😁😁

Not sure how your imaging is but you will love 3 across the front. I would play with front stage set up first and try to get everything to mix match together.

 

I think that's part of reason I liked the revel surrounds. Different brand than klipsch but I was able to get to them match up better with mains. I also ran 3 subs which helped alot lam sure, didn't need alot of low end from surrounds.

 

Ran a revel b 15 upfront and 2 lilmike anarchy subs midway on each side wall. Not sure if this was addressed to me  but I live in Atlanta. Post pics of the new front stage please, good luck!

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Hot ‘Lanta!  Hope it’s not too hot.  We’re just getting into a record-breaking heat wave.  It’s going to be 37C/99F, plus a few more degrees for the Humidex reading.  A few minutes ago, I went to my storage locker and retrieved my box fan, one of those old 2’ x 2’ fans that you can put in a window.  Almost nobody has A/C here, because really hot weather is so rare.  I’ve parked it in front of the Belle, where it can hopefully blow enough air onto me to let my sweat keep me cool.

 

As for audio, did you have any difficulty level matching your Revels with your Choruses?  I found that even Heresys make the AVR approach the limit of its adjustability when level matching with La Scalas.

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Help guys, la Scala AL5 arrives today but the parts for the new tv stand I’m building are back ordered till August.  Is it safe and/or advisable to place the tv on top of the new center lascala temporarily?  Stupid COVID bug.  The tv is a Sony 65” OLED weight about 70 lbs

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32 minutes ago, Smitty8451 said:

Help guys, la Scala AL5 arrives today but the parts for the new tv stand I’m building are back ordered till August.  Is it safe and/or advisable to place the tv on top of the new center lascala temporarily?  Stupid COVID bug.  The tv is a Sony 65” OLED weight about 70 lbs

It might be "safe", but it's not advisable.  Run the risk of leaving dents in the top.

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1 hour ago, Smitty8451 said:

Help guys, la Scala AL5 arrives today but the parts for the new tv stand I’m building are back ordered till August.  Is it safe and/or advisable to place the tv on top of the new center lascala temporarily?  Stupid COVID bug.  The tv is a Sony 65” OLED weight about 70 lbs

 

 

I use an old series Cornwall II (laid on it's side/"lowboy" style) as a TV stand for my Sony flatscreen. Only diff is on many newer models the base of the TVs aren't rectangular flat pieces that can spread across the speaker cab - they are "four legged", which might make the placement a bit tricky.

 

The LaScala will handle the weight being used as a TV stand just fine. I would strongly suggest a layer/towel/padding that will not mark the speaker top however, as you consider/experiment with how the flatscreen will actually sit astride the LaScala in terms of the "leggings" of that TV base, if that makes any sense.

 

I find that the screen hovering just above the lowboy Cornwall II its about as realistic as you can do in terms of positioning without having a screen you can play the speaker through (like a Stewart screen with a projector, etc).

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There’s nothing wrong with putting your TV on top of your AL5.  One advantage is that it places the TV 1-2 feet closer to you than mounting it on the wall would do.  65” sounds and looks big, but if you’re sitting 12 feet from it, the angle of view is about the same as what you’d see from the back row at the cinema, which is probably not what you imagined when you bought your TV.  It certainly wasn’t what I’d pictured when I got my 65” plasma TV.

 

The cabinet can support the weight, but the lacquer finish never fully hardens, so it marks up easily.  I’d recommend getting a large piece of wood, maybe as big as the top of your new speaker (24” x 24-25”).  That will spread the load much better than the little TV feet, and should ensure that you don’t get any marks on your new speaker.  Don’t put a cloth under the wood, or the pattern of the cloth will get pressed into the lacquer finish on the top of the speaker’s cabinet.  Be sure to sand all the edges and corners of the wood to eliminate any rough spots.

 

It might be tempting to get a sheet of glass, but glass is heavy, and combined with the weight of the TV, it could add up to more than the cabinet likes.  Wood would be quite a bit lighter.  Don’t go any thicker than 3/4”, and 1/2” might even be enough.  Of course, we’re making educated guesses.  The best source for this kind of info is Klipsch Customer Service.  That’s where I learned that lacquer doesn’t harden, for example.

 

Plexiglas is another option, and cooler-looking than wood, while being lighter than glass.

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