Jump to content

2.2uF 2.0uF and Types you use. Chorus "I"


Recommended Posts

Hello, restoring a set of crossovers on Chorus "I" . The squaker in one of the cabinets is down a few dB from the other (already switched cabinets to check horn) or I would not mess with them to be honest. I see a lot of 6.8 caps a lot of choices for 2.2 uF caps too. Are you all finding exact values or are you using exact values such as can be found in sonicap. I do not want to spend sonicap money to be frank. So I guess my question is what do you use. Thanks, Jim.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, VSAT88 said:

And exact values ?

 

you can reach out to JEM Performance Audio ,  they sell the klipsch OEM capacitors and they tear up a lot of crossovers

 

Check with Jim  - Good Luck -

 @JEM Performance

JEM Performance Audio

499 Limestone Drive, Bethel Park, Pennsylvania 15102

(412) 401-6915

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Deang said:

Bennic or Dayton Audio if you want to keep costs down. 

 

10 minutes ago, VSAT88 said:

And exact values ? Within 5-10% of original OK or exact values only. Anyone done that or have suggestions

?

 

Dean may get back to you but yes 5 or 10 value tolerance sounds like what have read here before. 5 being more desired of course.

Clarity got from Dean with Bennec and Mills resistor for my Chorus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not being critical here, it is what it is. The JEM kits and Crites kits are in the same ballpark - and he did say he didn’t want to spend that much. 
 

The 7uF and 68uF are electrolytic capacitors. Are you staying with electrolytics in those two spots?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Do not mind 100 bucks you know. I also have no trouble using lytics in the woofer positions. For that matter in my Polk SDA's I am using oil filled AC run caps in the MW section to great effect. Was more like wondering what you all use because I am not as up on Klipsch as I am some other products. I have rebuilt many a crossover network however I would at think that Klipsch might be a horse of a different color with the high sensitivity and all. I have a pair of Quartets with the titanium diaphragms and Clarity caps. I have a completely bone stock set of Fortes (I) and a set of Chorus (I) as well.  I like the way the Fortes sound a lot. The Quartets are excellent. Its just these Chorus that I am doing up right now because of the squawker issue. they actually sound pretty good besides that as they are. I do have titanium diaphragms in them already.

Edited by VSAT88
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Deang said:

Not being critical here, it is what it is. The JEM kits and Crites kits are in the same ballpark - and he did say he didn’t want to spend that much. 
 

The 7uF and 68uF are electrolytic capacitors. Are you staying with electrolytics in those two spots?

Not quite decided yet. I know that sounds vague and probably not helpful but I really have not made up my mind. Just tossing around ideas. I do not think to be honest that it would hurt to use an electrolytic in the woofer position but that 7uF in the mid position I am unsure. You Klipsch guys have to know a lot more than I do about that. Well, I should not say you Klipsch guys like its just you. I have three pair's and love every set.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be interesting to see a reply from someone who knows exactly how a passive crossover works. I understand what a capacitor does, in general, and its role in a crossover. I do not understand how the capacitance rating affects which frequencies are filtered. Understanding that is what's required to actually answer the OP's question - Do you have to use the sane capacitance rating as what you removed, or can you move up or down in capacitance?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That has more to do with the type of autoformer used as to the ohms.

As far as understanding of the crossover explained, he is more active of late and just here...Dean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Klipsch Employees
27 minutes ago, dsmdylan said:

It would be interesting to see a reply from someone who knows exactly how a passive crossover works. I understand what a capacitor does, in general, and its role in a crossover. I do not understand how the capacitance rating affects which frequencies are filtered. Understanding that is what's required to actually answer the OP's question - Do you have to use the sane capacitance rating as what you removed, or can you move up or down in capacitance?

You would be surprised how much the output changes by not using the same value and spec capacitor. This applies mostly to caps in series with the driver. On the woofer section, if the cap is in parallel, then is should be ok to keep it electrolytic. Using a different type of cap here is not so critical because it is in parallel with the driver. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Playing with this is instructive. 
 

http://www.kbapps.com/audio/speakerdesign/calculators/ThreeWayCrossoverSchematicCalculator.php

 

As the capacitor value goes up, the crossover frequency goes down, and visa versa. 
 

One should get as close to the target value as possible. When I buy capacitors, I buy from vendors who measure and match them for me. I’ve used many a 2.2uF, but all were 2.1 or lower. Keep in mind however, I’m not using inexpensive parts either. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have had and still do have Snell speakers. Snell matched everything up in the crossovers using all sorts of different capacitor values and types for that matter. I have found that in a set of speakers that the crossover capacitors are of different values in each speakers crossover network. No a huge difference but indeed, a difference. I love every set of Snell's that I have. Three sets, J III's , E III's and C/V's. I will heed the above advice and use as close as possible to the same as original value. If it says 2uF then no 2.2uF's. Thanks @Deang.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Chief bonehead said:

You would be surprised how much the output changes by not using the same value and spec capacitor. This applies mostly to caps in series with the driver. On the woofer section, if the cap is in parallel, then is should be ok to keep it electrolytic. Using a different type of cap here is not so critical because it is in parallel with the driver. 

 

I don't doubt it! I'm very interested to know the how, though.

 

1 hour ago, Deang said:

Playing with this is instructive. 
 

http://www.kbapps.com/audio/speakerdesign/calculators/ThreeWayCrossoverSchematicCalculator.php

 

As the capacitor value goes up, the crossover frequency goes down, and visa versa. 
 

One should get as close to the target value as possible. When I buy capacitors, I buy from vendors who measure and match them for me. I’ve used many a 2.2uF, but all were 2.1 or lower. Keep in mind however, I’m not using inexpensive parts either. 

 

Good info. Changing the crossover point is not quite as simple as just changing the capacitance, though, right? I've seen Al K state many times that you need to redesign the whole network. On the other hand, I get the sense that Al might tend to get caught up in the minutia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Deang said:

Playing with this is instructive. 
 

http://www.kbapps.com/audio/speakerdesign/calculators/ThreeWayCrossoverSchematicCalculator.php

 

As the capacitor value goes up, the crossover frequency goes down, and visa versa. 
 

One should get as close to the target value as possible. When I buy capacitors, I buy from vendors who measure and match them for me. I’ve used many a 2.2uF, but all were 2.1 or lower. Keep in mind however, I’m not using inexpensive parts either. 

 

What am I doing wrong here (Cornwall 1)? C1 seems close enough but C2 is obviously way off from the 2uF that's actually in the network.

 

xover.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want cheap, exact 2uF you can search for electric motor start capacitors (Klipsch was also using them at some point,  saw pictures of AL-3 with similar type). Those are polypropylene foil capacitors.

As bonus the can be easily mounted Klipsch style. with a single screw only.

 

2mf.png

 

61udrY2cLrL._AC_SL1000_.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for accuracy, on my AA crossover, there was factory mounted 14 uF capacitor  instead of 13uF as in XO schematics. It was combination of two other values.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, dsmdylan said:

 

What am I doing wrong here (Cornwall 1)? C1 seems close enough but C2 is obviously way off from the 2uF that's actually in the network.

 

For a start auto transformer increases impedance seen by C2. And not sure  raw impedance's you have chosen are correct. For ex. K33 is 4 Ohm impedance speaker. Horn loaded it will be higher but it's not the case as it's Cornwall so judging by measurement around  400Hz it's closer to 5 or 6 Ohms. For other it will be similar + additionaly autotransformer impact.

K33E_free-air_basshorn_R1.jpg

K77 impedance looks closer to 7.5. And then other factors needs to be taken into consideration as actual frequency response and more. Calculator you have used is good only for ideal drivers with flat response and same efficiency.

post-4254-13819264091062.thumb.jpg.e2fb764c1026db3605139836a0161836.jpg

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, VSAT88 said:

Do not mind 100 bucks you know.

JEM KLIPSCH OEM Capacitors deliver the klipsch sound  for the same cost as aftermarkets / approved by klipsch's  Head Engineer @Chief bonehead -

Good luck with your project - if you have any questions - reach out to the Moderator   @Youthman

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...