Room Corners: Cornwall VS La Scala?

[aaronhirsch]

Hi.

 

Something has been bugging me lately. I have Cornwall I's in the corners of my very large listening room (I can't move them and I can't get Klipschorns  😔 ). They're pretty good, but gosh that bass blooms. I have them EQed down in the LFs with a MiniDSP. It helps a lot. I've developed an interest in the La Scala, initially because I just love the way they look. Upon closer inspection, they're reputed to have less bass than the Cornwalls, which sounds ideal. So, why is it that the Cornwall is/was marketed as an acceptable corner speaker and the La Scala is not? Or am I wrong about this? I see that some people are putting La Scalas in corners. However, the last thing I want to do is take my rather good Cornwalls and replace them at great expense with all the logistical acrobatics and regret the swap. My sense is that the La Scalas would actually work a bit better and would be great eye candy.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks,

Aaron

Glen Echo, MD

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by aaronhirsch

[Schu]

55 minutes ago, aaronhirsch said:

Hi.

 

 My sense is that the La Scalas would actually work a bit better and would be great eye candy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

^  True That

[Langston]

Hi Aaron:

 

Different rooms behave differently under about 200Hz due to standing waves, which many people call room modes, or just modes. This frequency threshold above which things are pretty easy to achieve a smooth response and under which is generally a mess is called the Schroeder frequency. PWK was all about this and realized that the corners were the best place to locate loudspeakers with low frequency output for the most accurate and consistent response under the Schroeder frequency. This (1/8th space of a free field or spherical) location resulted in a dramatic increase in the lows, thus the corner loudspeaker was designed with much less low frequency output (though with full extension to the lowest frequencies). This was simple and brilliant and resulted in additional reductions in distortion because woofer excursion decreased.

 

I haven't had the pleasure of spending time with the Cornwall, but it's design is like all of audio - a compromise to achieve the best all around result for a given application. The Klipschorn lacks this compromise, thus is pretty useless away from a corner (even the new ones that advertise otherwise because the bass horn tuning is the same).

 

Thus, I'd guess the Cornwall design results in a proper full range balance on the floor and against one wall, then becomes a bit anemic in the lows away from walls, and then is too heavy in the lows in a corner. Properly implemented, your idea with the low frequency EQ should work well unless the listening position is a standing wave region (the smaller the room, the worse it gets).

 

You really are going to need the flexibility of moving your loudspeakers or listening position or both to get the best results even with the EQ. Just for fun, try thinking vertically with the loudspeakers - put them on cinder blocks at various heights in the corner. That will change things, though you won't know about better/worse until you try it. : )

 

God bless you and your precious family - Langston

 

Edit: evil thought - temporarily seal off the ports on the Cornwall and see if that helps with corner placement.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Langston

[jimjimbo]

Have a bit of patience and acquire a pair of vintage La Scalas.  Update the crossovers and drivers.  Expect to pay $2k and up for a very nice pair.  Please PM me if you have any questions.  Good luck in your search.

[billybob]

Glad you are happy with your Cornwall's.

Would p/u pair of LaScalas on the used market, and double your pleasure. 

Cool...

[aaronhirsch]

Very helpful. FWIW, I calculate my Schroeder Frequency at 102Hz. It's a very large room. So, with that in mind, maybe I could add one or more subs to help manage the bass? I actually have one in an opposite room corner: a Hsu VTF-2 MK4. I've got a MiniDSP 2x4HD and REW, which I'm finding very difficult to use. I'm getting an NAD C 658 preamp with Dirac Live, which I hope will be easier to figure out. 

 

[Langston]

46 minutes ago, aaronhirsch said:

I've got a MiniDSP 2x4HD and REW, which I'm finding very difficult to use. I'm getting an NAD C 658 preamp with Dirac Live, which I hope will be easier to figure out.

 

102Hz is a beautiful thing. You're on the right path with the sub(s), but corner placement of a sub is rarely going to be ideal. Before you do the fancy electrical mods I'd try to get the best result possible by dealing with these fundamental acoustical issues. Once you've done the best you can with the acoustic cake, then apply the electrical icing. That'll give you the best result.

 

Good luck! : )

 

God bless you and your precious family - Langston

[Bubo]

 

You can't go wrong with LaScalas

Sure you can change the crossovers

they also sound great the way they are.

They work well in corners, or both on the same wall out of the corners.

 

I had them 15ft apart, and 3-5ft out of the corners on the short wall in one place

and they sounded great

Now in corners in 14x17 room, and sound great

I always have an EQ that I use.

[Islander]

La Scalas are great speakers, which is why I have two pairs of them.  However, they really need the help of a sub or two, because their bass response starts to taper off at 100 Hz.  Oddly, 1 low/medium powered sub sounds good, but with high-powered subs, a pair works better to produce an even sound field in the deep bass region.  The reason for this is that the more powerful sub produces more noticeable peaks and nulls in the room, thus making any unevenness in the sound field much more apparent.  Adding a second matching sub will correct this.  It will also reduce bass distortion, because the motion of the driver in each subwoofer is cut in half for the same total volume.

 

As PWK said, "If it moves, it distorts", so less cone movement produces less distortion.