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Would klipsh ever do this???


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I ran across some Mackie Pro Audio speakers at: http://www.mackie.com/Products/Active/SR1530/SR1530.asp

My thought process was, we all want the perfect amp, made for the perfect speakers (Klipsch). I know they make powered subs... So why not do it for all the drivers and have the ultimate system made exactly as Paul and the audio designers wanted.???? What are your thoughts??

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hummm... to wit:

*** Quote from Stereophile website begins: http://www.stereophile.com/shownews.cgi?966 ***

February 12, 2001 One of the oldest names in American audio is venturing into new territory. Indianapolis, INbased Klipsch Audio Technologies has acquired "selected assets" of privately held Mondial Designs Ltd. of Dobbs Ferry, NY, maker of the Acurus and Aragon brands of amplifiers, preamps, and signal processors. Paul Rosenberg, Mondial's co-founder and former vice president, will become a director at his new parent company, with primary responsibilities in marketing and product development for Acurus and Aragon. Mondial chief engineer Adam Gershon and senior engineer Michael Kusiak will also remain with the company. Anthony Federici, Mondial's president, has moved on to form a new company called D & A Labs, which plans to debut a "high-end home theater receiver" this spring, with other quality electronics to follow.

The sale of Mondial to Klipsch, and Federici's departure, were accomplished amicably and are in the best interests of both companies, according to both Federici and Paul Jacobs, Klipsch's executive vice president and chief operating officer for the Klipsch Worldwide Products Group. "We have enjoyed a terrific relationship with both Anthony and Paul," said Jacobs, noting that Mondial products were displayed at CES 2001 under the Klipsch banner.

"We found a tremendous commonality with Acurus and Aragon and the direction we want to take at Klipsch," Jacobs explained. "We were looking for a platform to launch the Klipsch brand into the upscale home theater and home automation markets, and some of the talent at Mondial was a perfect fit." Among Gershon and Kusiak's new projects will be a redesign of the Acurus Act III surround processor, which may make its official bow at the next CEDIA show in the fall. Klipsch hopes to bring out "six or seven" new amplifier modelsincluding a flagship design, the Palladium monoblocks.

Klipsch also wants to make a strong move into the digital loudspeaker market. The company's V-2 400 THX multimedia sound system "has not only won universal praise from computer journals, but has introduced a whole new generation to quality sound," Jacobs stated. "Viral marketing is the key to making this industry grow."

Both Federici and Jacobs agreed that Acurus and Aragon enjoyed excellent sales, enthusiastic owners, and loyal dealers, but Mondial had difficulty keeping up production. Klipsch's deeper resources will be applied to bring production levels up to a quantity sufficient to supply all existing dealers, as well as to equip new ones. Toward that end, Jacobs will push production inventories up to three times the level they were previously, and has asked all parts suppliers to do likewise. Service for all Mondial products is also a priority. "It's our intention that all Acurus and Aragon owners and dealers benefit from continuous availability of parts and service," he said. Federici concurred, expressing "a genuine belief that Klipsch will take care of all Acurus/Aragon dealers."

The acquisition of his former company was done "on a very friendly basis," Federici mentioned. He was not even asked to sign a non-compete agreement, a common practice in such circumstances. Federici believes that with Klipsch's support, Mondial products will reach previously unattainable numbers of new customers. As he and Paul Jacobs see it, this buyout looks like a winner for all involved.

*** End of quote from Stereophile website ***

So, what'cha think?

Ray

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This opens up a wide variety of possibilities. Won't be overnight, but you'll see some fun stuff.

How many of you would be willing to purchase a "closed-loop" speaker system? By that I mean one where the amp(s) are dedicated to the speakers, whether on board or outboard, but only usable in combination. There are lots of cool things which can be done if the designer of the amp knows precisely what driver(s) the amp will operate and can add additional circuitry to enhance the linearity of the combination.

Think carefully because this is actually a big deal. Once you buy such a combo, there is no opportunity to play the mix n match game. The speaker + amp is a done deal. You might be able to use custom software to control those amps however.

Interested?

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I would love them too. I have heard Mackie's and they sound awesome. Less space is alway better.

Please let us know !!

Or even if the amps were desgined for specific Klipsch speakers, that would be great.

I have Forte II's so get working !!!

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The closed-loop idea sounds exciting, but I foresee marketing problems. I suspect that a substantial portion of audio customers play the upgrade game: do the speakers now, when you have the money, and upgrade the amp later, when you have the money or after you've had a chance to audition. Would the benefits of a closed-loop design be compromised by allowing for other components? Even if they weren't compromised, I suspect the cost would be prohibitive.

Perhaps the closed-loop idea is better suited for the pro audio market?

Myself, I can't wait to audition the new RF-7's. An earlier release of information regarding the impedance range of the speakers would be much appreciated....

------------------

May the bridges we burn light our way....

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Linn and Naim have been, uh, sort of successful taking the path of producing speakers that are available as passive loudspeakers that will work with other people's amplifiers, but they also supply dedicated amplifiers that can be retrofitted into the speaker cabinets, with active crossovers replacing the passive crossovers, resulting in an active system with eletronics matched to the drivers.

I, for one, would be reluctant to buy a system that did not allow me to change the electronics, no matter how much I liked the speakers or how great I thought the integrated active system sounded. Technology marches ever onward, and I'd want to know that if someone comes out with a new amplifier technology (Halcro, for example) or a significantly different sounding kind of amplifier (Cary's, uh, different 1610 thingie) that I liked that I could use it with my speakers. Whatever Klipsch does in the active speaker area, which I assume would include cool spiffs like digital crossovers with complete linear phase and ultra steep crossovers and narrow band driver equalization and customizeable bass response shaping and DSP-based room correction software and onboard DSD/PCM compatible D/A converters and digital system control links a la Meridian and cool blue LEDs, among other things, I hope the speakers are available in a passive version for those of us to like to putter about ourselves. But that's just me...

Ray

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In one breath, Ray said:

"Whatever Klipsch does in the active speaker area, which I assume would include cool spiffs like digital crossovers with complete linear phase and ultra steep crossovers and narrow band driver equalization and customizeable bass response shaping and DSP-based room correction software and onboard DSD/PCM compatible D/A converters and digital system control links a la Meridian and cool blue LEDs, among other things, I hope the speakers are available in a passive version for those of us to like to putter about ourselves."

What a sentence Ray. smile.gif Sorry, just kiddin' smile.gif

This "closed loop" speaker thing has me waffling. One minute it sounds like a cool idea and the notion of matching amp to speakers certainly seems ideal. Active crossovers & amps that can be taylored using your Palm Pilot??

OTOH, it's my observation that part of the appeal of being an audio enthusiast (aside from the shear enjoyment of music) is the CFF (constant fiddle factor). You know, changing speaker cables and trying different amps - both SS & tube. How would a "closed loop" speaker, the caliber of a Klipsch, satisfy the CFF? I mean, we're not talking about a speaker brand that run-of-the-mill folks look at when putting together a 2 ch. or HT system. I would think the typical Klipsch buyer has a rather high CFF.

Anyhow, I'd certainly love to give it a listen. What the heck, maybe it would be the cure for the common CFF. smile.gif

Tom Adams

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I totally agree with Mdeneen here. "Combo speakers probably will dominate low to mid-level speaker sales in the near future. I can't begin to tell you all how unfortunate I think this trend will be. Heck, they might as well place a processor and C.D. transport in an attached enclosure on top of one of the speakers so you only have to make one purchase and you have a great HI-FI stereo system......What a joke.....

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I certainly wouldn't dismiss the combo out of hand.

As pointed out above, it just does not appeal to people who like to tinker.

So perhaps some generous computer controlled settings should be included.

Gil

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Thanks all for your comments to date. These pretty well sum up the debate. Benefits of closed loop vs. the cost, inflexibility and fear of obsolescence. What's a 21st century speaker company to do?

MDeneen sums up the way many low priced consumer products wind up; no denying it. Why the heck did every body buy dubbing cassette decks? Did they REALLY want to make tape to tape copies - not for the most part. Seems many people are afraid to buy the wrong thing. So they buy all the features they can, and then to further protect themselves, they spend as little as possible so if they made a mistake, it wasn't a big $ mistake. Only problem with this approach is that it just about guarantees low quality, no fun and a boring result. How about a great sounding single deck instead of a bad sounding dubber?

Don't know what Klipsch will do about all of this but it will be fun to experience. I promise we will not bring out el cheapo stuff that abuses your trust. While we are not adverse to delivering low cost product, we do try to make it good performance for the money. Check the comments at http://www.klipsch.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001638.html

Thanks again for this input as it is important in determining our long range direction. Please continue the thread.

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If by "closed loop" you mean building an active speaker I think it would be a great idea. Go listen to some active Linn 5140's vs. passive powered 5140's(driven by any amp) and see if an active speaker has definite performance advantages. Price is definately the biggest setback to building such a system. (An entire active Linn home theater costs $27,000). I personally would not be worried about the inability to "tweak" since I very much doubt I could find ANY passive amp (within reason) that would sound as good as a properly designed active speaker. One question though, would the crossover be in the amps, eliminating any need for crossovers in the speaker? The Linn system uses external amps but places the crossover in the amp. Paradigm has active speakers but the amp is inside the speaker. I'm not sure where the crossover occurs.

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We own a pair of the Mackie SRM 450 powered speakers for a portable 35mm projection system our organization takes to parks. I am really impressed with them. I would like to purchase a set of the 824's Mackie has. I would love to see Klipsch come out with a comparable setup. I agree that if they put out a quality product people will buy them.

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BobG (and BobG2 wink.gif ),

Whatever Klipsch does, PLEASE put the bug in someone's ear that they need to design ANY integrated systems so that they can be UPGRADED. If I buy a brand spanking new Klipsch Mongo 2400 v2.2SE/R mod IIEX Digital Powered Speaker System, with it's dedicated 2,500 watt BASHER subwoofer amp, and next year Klipsch releases the v2.3 with a 4,000 watt amp, I sure better be able to unplug the old 2,500 watt amp and associated control circuitry from my speaker and trade up to the new amp without having to sell the entire system and start over with a brand new one.

My 2 cents...

Ray

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Ray, good concerns to be sure and a prime reason older systems (Braun 1030's, ADS 910's, Philips somethingorother) did not win as wide acceptance as they deserved. High cost and inability to stay current with new products.

As RogerG says above, with proper design, it's really hard to beat a speaker/amp combo. I would expect that upgrades would be via DSP code rather than by hardware swap. If you look at some of the high end components which work to avoid obsolescence via upgradable architecture, the added up-front cost is pretty staggering. Of course there will always be advances on the hardware end.

Check what Vandersteen has done with his Model 5. Fully field upgradable with a screwdriver (or a vodka tonic if you don't like orange juice) Clever engineering.

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Ive got another concern about integrated amplifiers in speakers; the power cords. Most true audiophiles have some kind of line conditioner or at the very least a surge protector. Its easy to plug in external amps when they are all nice and neat on your audio rack. But it would be a pain in the *** to have to run extension cords from the main speakers back to a power supply.

Id argue that most systems main speakers are at least 15 feet apart from one another. So even if the power cords that plugged into the integrated amps were eight feet long it would still be a tight fit. With speaker wire you can cut it (ok maybe not the REALLY high end stuff), but power cords are a different story.

Additionally I would never want to have to run a power cord up the wall to the surround speakers. If you were planning the installation while building a house this might not be much of an issue, but otherwise its just going to add to the wire clutter.

Despite the debates not to do it, personally Id like to hear exactly what such a perfectly matched system could sound like. The quality of the sound could very well outweigh any negatives when done correctly. Companies have been increasingly putting amps in their speakers for dedicated subwoofers but thats only been a proven design in the front speakers.

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