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Heresy Woofers


Bulkogi
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As I've posted before, I'm working on refurbishing my Heresy IIs and was wondering about what, if anything, to do with the woofers.  Aside from the typical absence of any deep bass, which I understand is simply a design element, I don't have any specific complaints and I don't notice anything obviously amiss.  That is, they play loudly and clearly without any odd noises.  They're faded and dusty, naturally, but that in and of itself doesn't bother me.   

 

So here are my questions:

 

1.  Aside from mechanical failure, what if anything does one listen for to determine if a woofer is no longer up to spec?   (I ask because, for example, I was quite pleased and surprised with how much better the speakers sounded after Crites's crossover network rebuild service and was wondering if there might be some similarly noticeable improvement with new or rebuilt woofers).

2.  Could anyone comment on whether the Crites CW1228 replacement woofer is an improvement over the original K22, let alone ones that are 32 years old?  Again, I'm not expecting deeper bass, though of course would welcome any even if just incremental.

3.  Has anyone re-coned their original K22s with the Speaker Exchange kit?  If so, what prompted you to do that and was their an improvement?

4.  Finally, is there any way to clean the surface of a paper woofer?  I tried a toothbrush, and while I was gentle, it did seem to scratch the very surface a bit, albeit only slightly.

 

If there's no reason to replace or re-cone, I'd be happy not to, but I'm also open to it if others have had positive results.  Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

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Just get a pair of Dayton PA310-8 woofers and a rear port the box via the Super Heresy 1.0 thread. Should be a simple woofer swap for about a Ben Franklin and a Ulysses S. Grant! No crossover mod required and you'll get tons of bass.

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I’d consider getting the upgrade/update kits from Klipsch.  They have them for post-1985 Heresy IIs.  I bought one for one of my H2s that I used for a centre channel between a pair of La Scalas.  I was really impressed with the kit, which included everything, like 3 new drivers (woofer, squawker, and tweeter), plus new and very improved crossover.  After I installed the kit, I could hear the improvements immediately, which included deeper bass, by 5 Hz, and improved sensitivity, from 97 dB/W/metre to 99.

 

The kits would be the first things I’d look at, because they’re Klipsch-approved and are a complete fully-engineered combo, and they keep your Klipsch speakers fully Klipsch.

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27 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Just get a pair of Dayton PA310-8 woofers and a rear port the box via the Super Heresy 1.0 thread. Should be a simple woofer swap for about a Ben Franklin and a Ulysses S. Grant! No crossover mod required and you'll get tons of bass.

 

Thanks, but I'm not interested in doing that at this point.

 

7 minutes ago, Islander said:

I’d consider getting the upgrade/update kits from Klipsch.  They have them for post-1985 Heresy IIs.  I bought one for one of my H2s that I used for a centre channel between a pair of La Scalas.  I was really impressed with the kit, which included everything, like 3 new drivers (woofer, squawker, and tweeter), plus new and very improved crossover.  After I installed the kit, I could hear the improvements immediately, which included deeper bass, by 5 Hz, and improved sensitivity, from 97 dB/W/metre to 99.

 

The kits would be the first things I’d look at, because they’re Klipsch-approved and are a complete fully-engineered combo, and they keep your Klipsch speakers fully Klipsch.

 

Thanks, but I'm not going that route.  I did give that some thought, and I totally agree with you that it's more than a reasonable deal, but I'd rather keep these as Heresy IIs.  I have ordered the Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms and will compare then to the existing phenolic diaphragms, but I'm generally not a metal dome tweeter guy.  We'll see.

 

I'm really only interested in thoughts on the questions I posted above, but I do appreciate the input from both of you because one never knows what the future might bring.

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54 minutes ago, Bulkogi said:

 Finally, is there any way to clean the surface of a paper woofer?

First, a soft paintbrush, then a soft brush attachment on a vacuum (careful...), then a very lightly damp cotton cloth with a mild white vinegar solution.  All of the above in a circular pattern.  Has worked many times for me.

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29 minutes ago, Bulkogi said:

 I have ordered the Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms and will compare then to the existing phenolic diaphragms, but I'm generally not a metal dome tweeter guy.  We'll see.

Well, if you do that, they are no longer KLIPSCH Heresy II's, technically, according to Roy's comments about this sort of thing. Best of luck to you.

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I have a pair of '86 vintage Heresy II's that still work perfectly in spite of the dried out looking woofers. They are a study on how much phase rotation we can put up with and still have amazingly good sound. Mine disappear under 90Hz or so, thus wall or corner placement can help a lot. I'm going to read that Super Heresy 1.0 thread. : )

 

This is an Excel based presentation of the Heresy II's transfer function back when I was playing around with Nyquist plots:

 

God bless you and your precious family - Langston

 

1706267919_HeresyII.thumb.png.982300aeabe1f8b6f036e26dd4fbd303.png

Edited by Langston
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9 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Well, if you do that, they are no longer KLIPSCH Heresy II's, technically, according to Roy's comments about this sort of thing. Best of luck to you.

Yes, OK, granted.  But I'm keeping the original phenolic diaphragms so it'd be an easy change back.  There is a difference in cost and result in what I am doing vs converting these to a Heresy III.  Thanks.

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19 minutes ago, Langston said:

I have a pair of '86 vintage Heresy II's that still work perfectly in spite of the dried out looking woofers. They are a study on how much phase rotation we can put up with and still have amazingly good sound. Mine disappear under 90Hz or so, thus wall or corner placement can help a lot. I'm going to read that Super Heresy 1.0 thread. : )

 

This is an Excel based presentation of the Heresy II's transfer function back when I was playing around with Nyquist plots:

 

God bless you and your precious family - Langston

 

1706267919_HeresyII.thumb.png.982300aeabe1f8b6f036e26dd4fbd303.png

While I appreciate the technical excellence of the data your present here, the "Blue One" look like one of my toddler grandkids was doodling on it! LOL.

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

the "Blue One" look like one of my toddler grandkids was doodling

 

So true. Dick Heyser was a huge fan of the Nyquist plot and I'm a huge fan of his, so I tried and tried to learn to love it, but me and the rest of the pro audio world pretty much let it die out with the TEF analyzer. Still, you can see stuff in it that isn't apparent with any other plot and if you work at it you can ignore many traditional plots and rely on the Nyquist. For example, the horizontal axis (real) is SPL (presented in pressure units above), the vertical axis (imaginary) is - wait for it! - the VELOCITY of the sound. That is so cool because sound only moves air particles back and forth, the speed of which increases with frequency. Thus, high frequencies move the air particles quicker, which takes more energy, thus when you are a good distance from a concert venue, only the low frequencies remain. The mass of the air molecules damped out all the highs. Sound PRESSURE on the other hand travels the distance from source to receiver. Just like a wave in the ocean that travels hundreds of miles, the actual water stays where it is - the water just bobs up and down as it passes - the distance between crest and trough is the loudness or SPL of the wave and the amount of time it takes is frequency. The Nyquist pressure is also a circular plot of the impulse response! And you can see magnitude and phase in there - but you have to think 90˚ (Hilbert transform-like). You can see all that stuff in the Nyquist and a heck of a lot more, BUT it's hard to apply much of it to the stuff we do.

 

Thus the lack of interest. : )

 

God bless you and your precious family - Langston

Edited by Langston
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I

4 hours ago, RandyH001 said:

 correction --the Heresy II  woofer is the K24 , not the K-22

http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/Heresy-II-Specs.pdf

 

 in Japan , when old paper woofer cones need a refresh , they use ink ,  to re-dye the paper cone -

  this is the only way to restore to a new look a paper cone -

 

 

I believe djk had posted about using the black liquid shoe polish. Just don't saturate the paper.

 

Colter had used a very light spray coat of SEM spray paint, meant for flexible surfaces.

 

https://www.yourautotrim.com/satinblack.html

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I have used the marker below with outstanding results on woofers, passives and dust caps.

 

I also pretty much refinished the veneer on a pair of black Chorus 2s with this marker and some Antique Oil rubbed in.

 

It’s what I had lying around and passed the “test in an inconspicuous area first” with flying colours.

 

 

E4B5B56A-518A-4013-814D-EF651800F73E.jpeg

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