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Heresy Woofers


Bulkogi
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10 hours ago, RandyH001 said:

 correction --the Heresy II  woofer is the K24 , not the K-22

http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/Heresy-II-Specs.pdf

 

 in Japan , when old paper woofer cones need a refresh , they use ink ,  to re-dye the paper cone -

  this is the only way to restore to a new look a paper cone -

 

 

The woofers that come in the H-3 update kits are the K-28s.  And the kits cost only a few hundred dollars.  They’re a great deal, or at least they were in 2008, when I bought mine.

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On 6/18/2021 at 9:51 AM, Bulkogi said:

1.  Aside from mechanical failure, what if anything does one listen for to determine if a woofer is no longer up to spec?   (I ask because, for example, I was quite pleased and surprised with how much better the speakers sounded after Crites's crossover network rebuild service and was wondering if there might be some similarly noticeable improvement with new or rebuilt woofers).

 

If they aren't broken, don't fix them

H1s converted to Crites sound good, essentially the same price as new caps so why not.

I didn't do a side by side new vs old.

 

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2.  Could anyone comment on whether the Crites CW1228 replacement woofer is an improvement over the original K22, let alone ones that are 32 years old?  Again, I'm not expecting deeper bass, though of course would welcome any even if just incremental.

 

If they aren't broken, don't fix them.

Heresy bass is in spec and an engineered product.

If you like a lot of bump, add a sub.

If you want to get into speaker design and build

then have a cnc wood shop make some cabinets to your specs

and experiment away.

Designs are full of trade offs

 

Klipsch was very good at delivering optimized cost-performance products

If you can't hear the difference, does it really matter

If the product is good enough for 99% of the customers

is it really worth trying to get the fringe 1% ?

 

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3.  Has anyone re-coned their original K22s with the Speaker Exchange kit?  If so, what prompted you to do that and was their an improvement?

 

You'll be lucky if they sound as good;

if the cones or surrounds are damaged, then they are broken

 

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4.  Finally, is there any way to clean the surface of a paper woofer?  I tried a toothbrush, and while I was gentle, it did seem to scratch the very surface a bit, albeit only slightly.

 

Carefully, with a vacuum with a brush attachment that is 2in long in the soft bristles.

Open the port on the vacuum to reduce suction and stay off of the coil covers.

You could also use a new soft bristle paint brush to dust them off, and stop there.

 

The only thing I would add to stock speakers is some batting from the fabric store in the bottom for some damping. Others would have more to say on this than me.

 

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17 hours ago, RandyH001 said:

and they dont sound like a KLIPSCH -

You know, Randy, that's a misleading answer and also assumes that I don't have any experience listening to Klipsch speakers.

 

The only things I had done to the inside of the speakers were (1) recapped crossovers, which only brings the sound quality back to how it was when the speakers were new and (2) replaced the original tweeter membranes with the titanium ones from Crites for the fun of hearing the difference in as close to an A-B comparison as possible.  As far as the former, I'm not going to argue about whether the Sonicaps might sound slightly different that the original electrolytic capacitors when they were brand new.  I consider it an improvement in quality and durability and a reasonable step when replacing 32 year old caps that don't sound right anymore.  As far as the latter, OK, you got me, kind of.  But I am keeping the original diaphragms safely in the box Crites uses for the replacements, so I can always put them back.  I'm going to do a post summarizing the project, which is now completed, but as a spoiler, I actually like  the titanium membranes, which surprised me.  I usually dislike any metal tweeters, and I bought these more for the experiment of hearing them, assuming I'd switch back at some point.  I probably won't, but maybe some future owner will, after I pass.  I wouldn't call them an upgrade necessarily, but the I personally prefer their more lively sound.  I don't think Mr. PWK would mind.

 

You seem to have a fixation with the philosophy "only original once" without acknowledging that aging electronics, and drivers, cease to remain in optimal condition over time and exact replacements are sometimes no longer available, even as NOS.

 

And yet you also occasionally post advice and videos which, while amusing, could be mistaken by a newbie as a good idea.

Edited by Bulkogi
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There is an ignore button here.

Don't like to argue and Klipsch

has an Indefinite amount of server space, although it is being tested ad infinunitum. Hope you have gotten an answer by now you can begin to hang your hat on.

Thanks!

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Klipsch woofers are not the usual home stereo type, with foam or rubber surrounds.  Instead, they're musical instrument woofers, with doped-paper surrounds.  This "dope" is the same kind of stuff that was used on early airplanes to make their fabric skins windproof.  This resulted in much less loss of lift from the wings, which was a Good Thing.  In speaker cone applications, the effect of that shiny/sticky black stuff is to keep the paper ridges at the edge of the cone from ever drying out or becoming brittle, which could cause tears over a long time.

 

As a consequence, Klipsch woofers last indefinitely.  As far as I know, there is no estimated service life for them. There's never a need to redo the surrounds, because they never dry out or crack, and besides, they're an integral part of the cone, with no separating line.  Of course nothing actually lasts forever, and woofers do occasionally fail, because of voice coil issues, perhaps.  That said, if your woofers are working fine, don't worry.  They are fine.

 

Other than a failed woofer, people only replace their woofers because they think that more expensive woofers should sound better.  With Klipsch Heritage speakers, that's very rarely the case.  Paul chose woofers and other drivers that were good-performing, consistent, and likely to be available for a long time.  Price was also a consideration, because these speakers were expensive enough already.  Once he had a model of woofer that he was happy with, he would design his speakers around them and their values, so that they sounded the way he wanted, which was as good as he could make them, which was (and is) very good.

 

Problems sometimes arise when someone puts a more expensive woofer in their speaker, but it makes it sound worse.  This usually surprises the owner, but not most members of the Forum, because it's not the first time they've heard of it.  The horn and the driver form an integral whole, so any new woofer has to exactly match the parameters of the standard driver, or it won't sound as good.  A few people, like Crites and Son (not their official company name), have years or even decades of experience with Heritage Series speakers, so they can safely recommend and supply compatible woofers and tweeters.  Their woofers, in particular, were carefully sourced to be a good match with the original parts, so no worries there.

 

I've got a 47-year-old pair of La Scalas and a 14-year-old pair of La Scala IIs.  I've never looked at their woofers.  Years ago, when I first got the La Scalas and was integrating them into my system, I ran some tests from 200 Hz on down, so I could tune the sub to work seamlessly with them, and was impressed at how smooth the Scalas bass output was, with a few mild peaks and dips.  Once that setup was done, that was about it, except for that JubScala conversion thing.  Now they're back to stock, with just Crites CT125 tweeters (that was a useful upgrade, because the K-77 tweeters definitely don't last forever, and the Crites tweeters do sound a bit different, but in a good way.) and Sonicaps replacing the old tin-can capacitors (they also don't last forever).  Now the JubScala gear is on the La Scala IIs (it's a simple switchover), and they're sounding just fine.  I don't think I'll be flipping those 175-pound speakers upside-down anytime soon to access the woofers, so as long as they're working fine, I'm leaving them alone.

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2 hours ago, Bulkogi said:

You know, Randy, that's a misleading answer and also assumes that I don't have any experience listening to Klipsch speakers.

 

The only things I had done to the inside of the speakers were (1) recapped crossovers, which only brings the sound quality back to how it was when the speakers were new and (2) replaced the original tweeter membranes with the titanium ones from Crites for the fun of hearing the difference in as close to an A-B comparison as possible.  As far as the former, I'm not going to argue about whether the Sonicaps might sound slightly different that the original electrolytic capacitors when they were brand new.  I consider it an improvement in quality and durability and a reasonable step when replacing 32 year old caps that don't sound right anymore.  As far as the latter, OK, you got me, kind of.  But I am keeping the original diaphragms safely in the box Crites uses for the replacements, so I can always put them back.  I'm going to do a post summarizing the project, which is now completed, but as a spoiler, I actually like  the titanium membranes, which surprised me.  I usually dislike any metal tweeters, and I bought these more for the experiment of hearing them, assuming I'd switch back at some point.  I probably won't, but maybe some future owner will, after I pass.  I wouldn't call them an upgrade necessarily, but the I personally prefer their more lively sound.  I don't think Mr. PWK would mind.

 

You seem to have a fixation with the philosophy "only original once" without acknowledging that aging electronics, and drivers, cease to remain in optimal condition over time and exact replacements are sometimes no longer available, even as NOS.

 

And yet you also occasionally post advice and videos which, while amusing, could be mistaken by a newbie as a good idea.

 

 

Thank you.

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8 hours ago, Bulkogi said:

for the fun of hearing the difference in as close to an A-B comparison as possible.  

That ^^ is what a lot of us do, then we enjoy the better sound. Anything can be made better, straight out of the box, brand new. Everything sold is produced and sold on a price point for maximum profit or to stay in business, or... Putting better brakes on a new Vette doesn't make it not a Vette, it makes it a better car. There is a reason that Klipsch makes a new version of the Heritage line: There are better ways to make it sound better.  

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9 hours ago, Bulkogi said:

You know, Randy, that's a misleading answer and also assumes that I don't have any experience listening to Klipsch speakers.

 

The only things I had done to the inside of the speakers were (1) recapped crossovers, which only brings the sound quality back to how it was when the speakers were new and (2) replaced the original tweeter membranes with the titanium ones from Crites for the fun of hearing the difference in as close to an A-B comparison as possible.  As far as the former, I'm not going to argue about whether the Sonicaps might sound slightly different that the original electrolytic capacitors when they were brand new.  I consider it an improvement in quality and durability and a reasonable step when replacing 32 year old caps that don't sound right anymore.  As far as the latter, OK, you got me, kind of.  But I am keeping the original diaphragms safely in the box Crites uses for the replacements, so I can always put them back.  I'm going to do a post summarizing the project, which is now completed, but as a spoiler, I actually like  the titanium membranes, which surprised me.  I usually dislike any metal tweeters, and I bought these more for the experiment of hearing them, assuming I'd switch back at some point.  I probably won't, but maybe some future owner will, after I pass.  I wouldn't call them an upgrade necessarily, but the I personally prefer their more lively sound.  I don't think Mr. PWK would mind.

 

You seem to have a fixation with the philosophy "only original once" without acknowledging that aging electronics, and drivers, cease to remain in optimal condition over time and exact replacements are sometimes no longer available, even as NOS.

 

And yet you also occasionally post advice and videos which, while amusing, could be mistaken by a newbie as a good idea.

Randy’s right. It ain’t a klipsch. But you go enjoy. It’s just not a klipsch anymore. Enjoy!!

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