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Use an invertor to power system............Thoughts


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Listening to Danny Richie at GR Research discuss Power Cables and how he set up his main system using AGM batteries. I have had a few pieces over the years that used 12 volt batteries for power, It was thought that was a cleanest power available for the product. Several HIGH end companies rely on Battery power for there wares. I was just thinking why not set up an Invertor similar to an RV setup to power my system. All I would need is a couple deep cycle AGM batteries and something like a 3000 watt invertor. This would power a pair of tube mono amps, a single Digital SS amp, a Tube Pre-amp, aa tube Dac, and a computer.......................Plug my current Balanced power supply into the invertor and my components into the invertor

 

Seems straight forward, I get away from the voltage swings that range between 119 and 126 here locally, I get away from the what seems like constant power failures and the surges they cause upon restoration of power. It would cost MUCH less than even a modest power conditioner / surge protector.

 

Anyone doing something like this ? wouldn't this also be akin to a solar setup ?  They take solar power convert it to DC and that is fed into an invertor to power the whole house. Anyone on full solar power ? has it improved SQ or created issues ?

 

Thanks Joe

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16 minutes ago, joessportster said:

Anyone on full solar power ? has it improved SQ or created issues ?

 

In the past when using Coal based power I found I had a deep, black background. After switching to Solar I find sparkling highs but a bit bright on sunny days. I'm keen to try wind power as I believe it will provide some air and space to the music.🙃

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Seriously, I'm not totally off the grid with my solar so really can't comment on my inverter in my system. I'm not sure how it works when I am taking from the grid or supplying enough for my entire house and putting the excess into the grid. I do see my meter run in both the positive and negative direction, but never noticed any difference in SQ. I'd suspect when I am pushing excess solar into the grid I'm totally running on my sun-created, inverted power. But again not technically off the grid.

 

I do notice my Furman always reads one dot of red into the high end. It has been this way since I installed it...prior to my solar. I always wondered if that caused any stress/harm to my house...not just A/V equipment but everything. I swear since moving to this house the light bulbs burn out way faster than I ever remembered. The lamp post in my front yard does not make it 4 months on a set of bulbs. The A/V equipment should be in good shape as that is why I have to furman to smooth out the ups and down, no?

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Thanks Rich

 

Seems like solar would be better regulated power than typical line power. I would think the invertor would put out a steady voltage. I assume it would depend on the type invertor  though. I am looking at a PURE Sine Wave style invertor.  

 

Locally it seems like if the wind blows we lose power. I am always unplugging every time I think it might go out.  I am fairly confident in this projects ability to perform well. More as a way to have a better regulated supply than as a way to affect SQ but we will see

 

Joe

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15 minutes ago, joessportster said:

Thanks Rich

 

Seems like solar would be better regulated power than typical line power. I would think the invertor would put out a steady voltage. I assume it would depend on the type invertor  though. I am looking at a PURE Sine Wave style invertor.  

 

Locally it seems like if the wind blows we lose power. I am always unplugging every time I think it might go out.  I am fairly confident in this projects ability to perform well. More as a way to have a better regulated supply than as a way to affect SQ but we will see

 

Joe

 

What about a big computer-type batter backup? You cold try battery by unplugging from the wall, and when storms hit it would give you plenty of time to power down. Size the system to last 15-20 minutes and it could do double duty testing all battery playback and failsafe when the power goes out.

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19 minutes ago, rplace said:

 

What about a big computer-type batter backup? You cold try battery by unplugging from the wall, and when storms hit it would give you plenty of time to power down. Size the system to last 15-20 minutes and it could do double duty testing all battery playback and failsafe when the power goes out.

Last time I looked into one of those they were quite expensive, The invertor I need is under 500.00 I already have agm batteries in my Dads Diesel truck so easy to test with only buying the invertor, I do appreciate the suggestion though

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2 hours ago, babadono said:

What's the inverter run off of?

2 each 12 volt AGM batteries wired in parallel , that the invertor converts to 120 VAC

 

2 hours ago, oldtimer said:

Woofers and Tweeters would just suggest that you move.

I would be happy to move, but the wife and boys not so much. My oldest was just accepted into an Early Collage program where he can graduate High School with a Diploma and a 2 year collage degree. We have to stay in the county for that program which is IMHO a superb program.

 

 

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If voltage swings are your issue, look at the PS Audio regenerators. I have an older Premiere model that corrects the incoming voltage and reduces line distortion. You can actually see on the display what the incoming voltage and THD is and see what the unit outputs. I don't run my amp into it, but some of the larger ones would be ok for a small wattage tube amp.

 

Shakey

 

 

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14 hours ago, joessportster said:

2 each 12 volt AGM batteries wired in parallel , that the invertor converts to 120 VAC

So you're going to charge the batteries with some kind of charger off the power coming into the house then convert(invert) the battery power back to AC with an inverter with the desired result that the voltage from the inverter wiil be constant?

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53 minutes ago, babadono said:

So you're going to charge the batteries with some kind of charger off the power coming into the house then convert(invert) the battery power back to AC with an inverter with the desired result that the voltage from the inverter wiil be constant?

basically, but the batteries will not be charging while using the system. The system while playing will be powered by batteries to invertor making for a super clean constant reliable voltage. The biggest ? is how long will the batteries maintain charge for listening. I know you can go days in a camper. The couple pieces I have had over the years that used 12 VDC batteries could play for weeks without a charge.

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5 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

If voltage swings are your issue, look at the PS Audio regenerators. I have an older Premiere model that corrects the incoming voltage and reduces line distortion. You can actually see on the display what the incoming voltage and THD is and see what the unit outputs. I don't run my amp into it, but some of the larger ones would be ok for a small wattage tube amp.

 

Shakey

 

 

Voltage swings are part of the problem, The other part is noise on the lines, power loss and the surges created when comes back on. I will look at the PS audio though  thanks

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6 hours ago, joessportster said:

basically, but the batteries will not be charging while using the system. The system while playing will be powered by batteries to invertor making for a super clean constant reliable voltage. The biggest ? is how long will the batteries maintain charge for listening. I know you can go days in a camper. The couple pieces I have had over the years that used 12 VDC batteries could play for weeks without a charge.

 

You will be relying on the quality of the inverter to give you a clean, 60 cycle sine wave. You can't go cheap on the inverter. A lot of inverters have a stepped sine wave, which wouldn't be the best for audio. Then you are stressing the power supplies in your equipment and requiring those to provide clean DC to your components.  Clean would be having everything run on the DC.

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What about motor-generator setups? 

Line AC turns a motor, motor turns generator, generator powers the hifi.

 

Maybe power supply impedance becomes an issue? 5,500-watt inverter has a 2.6 ohm output impedance, 1.6 ohm minimum at peaks. That's quite a bit higher than the distribution trans that feeds your house (line losses notwithstanding).

But it should be clean.

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On 6/21/2021 at 5:55 PM, joessportster said:

Thanks Rich

 

Seems like solar would be better regulated power than typical line power. I would think the invertor would put out a steady voltage. I assume it would depend on the type invertor  though. I am looking at a PURE Sine Wave style invertor.  

 

Locally it seems like if the wind blows we lose power. I am always unplugging every time I think it might go out.  I am fairly confident in this projects ability to perform well. More as a way to have a better regulated supply than as a way to affect SQ but we will see

 

Joe

 

Your equipment's power supplies are FAR better than that.  Don't fall for audio nervosa. 

 

I have a small, educational solar system.  The panel output is all over the map, both current and voltage.  I'm running a Victron MPPT charge controller and a 300 watt Aims sine wave inverter.  The battery voltage changes several 10ths every few minutes until the battery is topped off.  So, the system voltages are not that stable, but the output of the Aims inverter does look to be stable to the volt, but I can't see what sort of harmonics are on the line. 

 

A typical rail voltage for a 100 watt amp is +/-40 to 45 volts.  So what if your line voltage varies from 117 to 125V?   Then, with Klipsch speakers you are mostly applying 10 volts or less to the speakers, never challenging the available 40V.  Those fat caps in the power supply absorb and fill the tics and pops and brief sags that MAY make it past the transformer and rectifier.   

 

If you are worried about power system upsets, get some of these:

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Power-Distribution-Whole-House-Surge-Protectors/Square-D/N-5yc1vZbm05Zal2?storeSelection=

The breaker box style is cake to install. 

 

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Wow, those whole house surge protectors are pretty cheap, especially compared with some of the $1000+ home hi-fi units.  I wonder if there are actually any audible differences between the Home Depot gear and the hi-fi stuff?

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14 minutes ago, Islander said:

Wow, those whole house surge protectors are pretty cheap, especially compared with some of the $1000+ home hi-fi units.  I wonder if there are actually any audible differences between the Home Depot gear and the hi-fi stuff?


The “hifi” brands will surely cost multiples of the HD Square D gear. So yes, of course the hifi brands will sound those multiples better - .

And Square D happens to be good quality industrial components. 

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28 minutes ago, richieb said:


The “hifi” brands will surely cost multiples of the HD Square D gear. So yes, of course the hifi brands will sound those multiples better - .

And Square D happens to be good quality industrial components. 

You guys know that without that $12,000.00 power cable it won't work, right?

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