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DVDMike

Klipschorn AK-3 horn mods

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On 7/22/2021 at 7:34 PM, babadono said:

For clarification. You are using an active crossover to bi amp. The crossover is at 1000Hz? Then you are allowing the passive crossover for the bass bin to further low pass the signal to the woofer down to 400Hz? Then what about the high pass to the squawker/tweeter is it also at 1000Hz? If this is true you have a band from 400 to 1000Hz not being reproduced.

Maybe I am not following what you are doing correctly.

 

One of the main advantages of using an active crossover and then bi or tri amping is to get the reactive components of the passive crossover and their phase shifts out of the signal path.

 

With the Active DSP that I currently have, and I've only had it a week now and am not sold on it, it is easy to change the crossover points and slopes. I am only bi-amping. So the upper speaker level signal is getting split by the AK-3 passive xover. I could eliminate this xover altogether if I tri-amped. I think I have the amp to do this. But I would have to upgrade my Active DSP to split the signal 3 ways.

Now on to the bass passive crossover. Ive got a direct signal from the bass amp to the woofer, but I still have the crossover also hooked to the woofer on the original connector connectors. The strait wire is connected to the second set of tabs on the woofer. The woofer has 4 connectors on it. 2 were originally connected to the Klipsch crossover. I left them in tact and connected my own 2 wires to the previously empty set of tabs. The thinking for leaving the original connections is that I could switch back to the connections on the back of the klipschhorn box where the 2 original bass bin banana connectors are from two new bass bin connectors I added to the back / side of the the speaker so that a person could conveniently switch between a previously filtered signal back to an unfiltered signal and go back to the original bass crossover easily. The user just needs to connect only one bass bin at a time and make sure they correct the right one. But they would never have to unscrew the side/back panel to gain access and rewire the connections to and from the driver and the passive crossover inside.

My question about this is if what I have done by keeping the passive xover connected to the driver only but not sending a signal through the driver from the outside, would this harm the passive crossover in any manner?  Is my direct connection to the woofer going to also by passed in the opposite direction through the passive crossover and cause harm since I did not connect it from the driver?  I don't have enough knowledge of electronics to know one way or the other and I didn't think about it until after I connected and tested on one speaker.

My next question is about the AK-3 crossover settings and your questioning if I might be missing an entire range of frequencies from 400 to 1000khz. The shot answer is I should not be as I set them with overlap. But what are the recommended / factory xover settings for the AK-3?  Preliminarily, I set mine by ear. I know this is faulty, but I set it up with overlap between the bass and midrange/highs.  So what are the settings that Klipsch uses? And for tweekers, what do they set them at for all 3 pieces?  The reason why I ask about all three is I think you may be correct that it best to just tri-amp and eliminate the old klipsch Ak-3 altogether.  They are 30 years old. I have not tested them. But if they were not 100%, it would be less expensive to upgrade from 2 way active DSP to 3 way active DSP than to purchase replacement crossovers. Replacing just the caps is much less expensive but I do not have the soldering experience working with boards to feel confident on doing that. Anyway, if you or anyone has any information on all three crossover specs, I'd appreciate it.

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On 7/22/2021 at 9:54 PM, Fast996 said:

That means Khorns are room dependent.

Your room is similar in size to mine. I really have no choice but to leave mine placed in the location where they are in the 2 front corners. I'm trying to make them sound as good as they can in this room exactly where they are.  When I had my cornwalls in this room, I felt no need to make any mods to them. The KH's definitely added a lot over the CW's but they really added to much. It would be like going from a mustang that you love to a Maserati that you love more but can't quite tame for your driving skills. 

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40 minutes ago, DVDMike said:

The KH's definitely added a lot over the CW's

the caps in your XO may be out of spec  - you can verify the ESR leakage with an ESR Meter -

VIP   --you may want to check the  clear Monster Speaker wires  of the AK-3  XO ,  for corrosion -

 

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33 minutes ago, DVDMike said:

So the upper speaker level signal is getting split by the AK-3 passive xover.

 

I assume you are sending the full signal to the top hat crossover and not the high pass from your DSP???

 

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38 minutes ago, mboxler said:

I assume you are sending the full signal to the top hat crossover and not the high pass from your DSP???

No, the dsp is splitting into 2 ranges, lows and everything else with some overlap.

 

I can easily change this frequency in real time, solo both or just one channel with and without the bass. I’ve tested sending the full frequencies to to high ak3 and I cannot hear a difference. testing equipment might. But I cannot hear it. So for now I’ve pre cut out the low frequencies before the amplified signal goes to the ak3 upper crossover. 
 

why am I sending a cut signal only to be split into 2 by the passive ak3? Because I was told, read it several places, that it puts less strain on your amplifier if you remove frequencies you know you don’t need in the path later. I think this was even mentioned the pinned thread here about bi-amping. Your assumption that I was sending a full signal into the upper crossover makes me believe that what I’ve read and am doing might be the wrong thing? 

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52 minutes ago, RandyH said:

you may want to check the  clear Monster Speaker wires  of the AK-3  XO ,  for corrosion

I can do this. I’ve really been just making the physical mods to the right speaker because it’s easier to access. I looked at it the lower crossover and didn’t see any corrosion of it or of the upper one on the right speaker. I didn’t see any obvious signs of leaking or bloating on the caps either. But they have NOT been tested. I’m trying to borrow a meter. But no one has one. So I might just have buy one.

 

Do you happen to know of any klipsch documentation on what the in-spec values should read for ak3’s should find a meter to test? I’ve searched online before and came up empty. 

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21 minutes ago, DVDMike said:

No, the dsp is splitting into 2 ranges, lows and everything else with some overlap.

 

I can easily change this frequency in real time, solo both or just one channel with and without the bass. I’ve tested sending the full frequencies to to high ak3 and I cannot hear a difference. testing equipment might. But I cannot hear it. So for now I’ve pre cut out the low frequencies before the amplified signal goes to the ak3 upper crossover. 
 

why am I sending a cut signal only to be split into 2 by the passive ak3? Because I was told, read it several places, that it puts less strain on your amplifier if you remove frequencies you know you don’t need in the path later. I think this was even mentioned the pinned thread here about bi-amping. Your assumption that I was sending a full signal into the upper crossover makes me believe that what I’ve read and am doing might be the wrong thing? 

 

I guess I should have asked what the high pass frequency is from the DSP.  If it's low enough, and the slope is steep enough, you won't notice a difference.

 

Sorry about that.

 

I have a pair of ALK ES5800t crossovers in the Garage Sale that would replace the ALK-3 top hat section and give you more control over the high pass

signal to the squawker/tweeter.

 

Mike

 

Mike

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48 minutes ago, DVDMike said:

 I didn’t see any obvious signs of leaking or bloating on the caps either. But they have NOT been tested. I’m trying to borrow a meter. But no one has one. So I might just have buy one.

 

 

Do you happen to know of any klipsch documentation on what the in-spec values

an ESR meter can  measure the ESR   " leakage  "  or loss

 

https://community.klipsch.com/uploads/monthly_2018_10/172800278_AK-3schematic1.jpg.58882c3731c26fb5f6ca43bb6d712fda.jpg

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8 hours ago, DVDMike said:

Your room is similar in size to mine. I really have no choice but to leave mine placed in the location where they are in the 2 front corners. I'm trying to make them sound as good as they can in this room exactly where they are.  When I had my cornwalls in this room, I felt no need to make any mods to them. The KH's definitely added a lot over the CW's but they really added to much. It would be like going from a mustang that you love to a Maserati that you love more but can't quite tame for your driving skills. 

Iirc the ak3 crossovers use 3 2uf caps per channel. I would replace those and see if that makes a positive difference. That's where I would start...good luck.

 

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