Jump to content

Home theater with Khorns


jebartist
 Share

Recommended Posts

29" is the max height I'm willing to go under my TV. As I said, every bit I go up with the TV is every bit the TV is pushed further into the room It's nearly 2' out from the wall now. I'm not going any further. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

I believe with some processing and maybe getting the right angle, I can get the Heresy to blend well enough to enjoy the setup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/27/2021 at 1:31 PM, jebartist said:

29" is the max height I'm willing to go under my TV. As I said, every bit I go up with the TV is every bit the TV is pushed further into the room It's nearly 2' out from the wall now. I'm not going any further. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

On the bright side, the further the TV is into the room, the closer it is to you.  That's one of the main reasons that I have my TV sitting on a Belle Klipsch.  That puts it about a foot/30 cm closer to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/8/2021 at 9:33 PM, sixspeed said:

I don't know about older KHorns and Heresy's but all I can tell you is the Heresy III is a phenomenal HT and music center between 2 AK5.5 KHorns. Main thing is just having the height/position of it right relative to the seating position. With the slant base it has far enough away the Heresy sounds like it's coming from TV level like the KHorns. If you are too close to it it may be an issue though as a center, so you will have to elevate it a bit.

 

Voicing on it is a perfect match on mine and the LCR sound stage is seamless with movies. I actually have custom Aussie Walnut Forte IV's on order for my corner surrounds to upgrade to 6.2 (I use 2 subs). Down the road will eventually add 4 heights for Atmos/DTS:X and Auro. But for now I will be happy going from 1 to 3 surrounds as I've been running LCRS aka 3/1.2 for 2-3 years now.

 

But between equal rough time period and model, the Heresy is an excellent center between them. Dialog is crystal clear and it actually helps with upper frequency extension since the H3s extend to 20kHz where as the KHorns fall off after 18kHz. Not that you can really hear that anyway as lots of great cinema horn systems also roll off above 18kHz as well. But to be honest when I initially just ran 2ch HT with the KHorns, they really came alive even more when I wasn't relying on them for phantom center anymore when I added the 2 H3 70ths to my system.

 

I have the Heresy III's crossed over at 60hz, to give them a bit of padding before they fall off and on my pre-pro depending on the source type I have that set to redirect to the KHorns for music and the subs center channel bass management with films, both modern lossy/lossless discrete surround and older matrix surround films from the 80s.

 

Now there are a lot more options for you as in the late 80s you also had the Belle's too which are a killer center for KHorns. Really just depends on your room layout, console/furniture considerations etc. Because at one point or another in Klipsch history, the Heresy, Cornwall, Belle and La Scala's have all been used as center channels for the KHorn and all will do the job. The latter 2 especially in wider stereo arrays primarily for a 3ch stereo system for music. Something that still sounds amazing even with the Heresy -- which I know first hand since it's how I exclusively listen to music with it... with a custom PWK box made for me with an adjustment gain for the center. Music DSP in modern Pre-Pros other than Meridian is horrible, especially Atmos/DTS:X ones. You'll enjoy music a lot more in passive 3ch than using the very generic "improved" DSU or DTS Neo:X upmixers. Neo:6 Music and PLII Music are not available in Atmos/DTS:X capable AVR/Pre-Pros, but the passive 3ch sounds better for music anyway, and better than straight 2ch IMHO.

 

There were also some other bespoke models in the 80s and early 90s that Klipsch no longer makes that also may work as a center as well for late 80s KHorns, but I'd probably stick with the heritage "legacy" line of models for the reasons state above -- they've all been used as center channels between KHorns at some point in different systems over the years with great success.

 

Space/footprint wise, the Cornwall and Heresy will be the most friendly, and both are also enclosed of course too. The La Scalas and Belle's stick out a good amount. The low end of the Cornwall would be the best out of all of them. So if you can fit them, the Cornwall would be my choice, and the Forte or Heresy for your side and rear surrounds.

 

Good luck!

 

 

sixspeed, does your Khorns have the tractrix mid?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I finally managed to get the room done. I'm hanging new blinds on the windows this weekend. I'm still waiting for the curtains to come in so they can be hung. There's been no acoustic treatments done other than the rug. That will be something done over time.

 

I just now need to get all the equipment installed and the room wired for the theater part. Oh, hang the TV and build the TV console. I'm building it out of 3/4" steel tube and using rough sawn oak 1x's for the top and shelves.

 

On a side note, I finally hooked up my Khorns and tuned them in. Still a ways to go, but I am thoroughly impressed with how good they sound. Quite amazing actually! Someone on here said they won't center image well as far apart as I have them, well I think you need to come listen to them then. The center image and sound stage is absolutely fantastic! It's like I can pick out where each person on the stage is standing or pick out the location of the instrument in the orchestra. I'm blown away!

Khorn home theater2.jpg

TV console.jpg

Edited by jebartist
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks looks fantastic! Congrats.

 

Yup with that amount of toe in the center image should be quite strong, depending how far back you sit you may enjoy it for music in 2ch only. So you'll only really need the center for dialog in movies, as far apart as they are in your room you definitely don't wanna use phantom center for movies it would be an immersion killer a ft left or right of the sweetspot dialog will collapse from the center. If you are gonna run the Heresy like I do for center make sure it's high enough up. If you make a box in the cabinet for it to sit in, perhaps even give it a 1 to 1.5inch tilt upwards to compensate for it sitting just below your tv screen. Your listening position it will sound like its coming at the same height as the KHorns and you'll know it's perfect when you have L to R or R to L pans and swings with entertainment that are seamless. You'll know when it's dead on perfect. Nice thing about the Hersey or Cornwall is they aren't super deep so they won't stick out ahead of the KHorns. Granted that can be adjusted for with processor setup, time delay and speaker distance. My Heresy sticks out slightly forward of the inner toe in of the KHorn but aligns evenly with the outer angled edge of the KHorns forward and works great.

 

As for your other questions sorry I didn't see that earlier. I'm actually not sure if the KHorn 70th Anniversary's are considered Tractrix or not. I'm not really an expert on horn/waveguide designs lol. I'm sure one of the guys here would know. They just have the standard Klipsch horn/wave guide design with the right angles, my Forte's for example have those fancy new flanges and curved shapes in their waveguide for the midrange but the timbre and tonal qualities of them are undeniably heritage.

 

Good luck on the build out you are gonna be thrilled when it's all done. I for one can't wait to see how the build proceeds. Heritage Music and HT is the best :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never mind, the last post I saw was from August when you talked about Chorus II’s.  Now I see the completed room with Chorus I’s and may I say it looks great.  
Chorus 1’s is the speaker I would buy even though I have no need and place for them.  I just love them!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Ok, so I don't like the Heresy I as a center channel. I have yet to run Dirac Live and properly tune the system, but movies with this center channel really seam a bit lackluster with the center channel content.

 

As suggested before, I wouldn't like it and should go for something like a La Scala. Well, as I stated before, my TV is the problem there, as well as all the equipment under the TV. TV is wall mounted at the highest possible point and the bottom of the TV is 29 1/2" from the floor.

 

What would blend better with the Khorns in m situation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, jebartist said:

Ok, so I don't like the Heresy I as a center channel. I have yet to run Dirac Live and properly tune the system, but movies with this center channel really seam a bit lackluster with the center channel content.

 

As suggested before, I wouldn't like it and should go for something like a La Scala. Well, as I stated before, my TV is the problem there, as well as all the equipment under the TV. TV is wall mounted at the highest possible point and the bottom of the TV is 29 1/2" from the floor.

 

What would blend better with the Khorns in m situation?

Placing center channels in larger Klipsch Heritage setups IS the problem for most people who want to go this route and I understand why you don't like the heresy in that position. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

On 12/5/2021 at 3:39 PM, jebartist said:

...

As suggested before, I wouldn't like it and should go for something like a La Scala. Well, as I stated before, my TV is the problem there, as well as all the equipment under the TV. TV is wall mounted at the highest possible point and the bottom of the TV is 29 1/2" from the floor.

 

What would blend better with the Khorns in m situation?

It seems that the two that would blend best with the Khorns would be either  the La Scala or a used Belle Klipsch.  I don't think the timbre match could be any closer, short of cramming a Klipschorn in there (and changing what looks like might be your roof line).  Both the Belle and some La Scalas (not the I) have a removable top hat, so the shorter bass-only section, perhaps, could be put below the TV screen, and the midrange and tweeter mounted above the screen.  There would be a few ifs, ands, and buts.

  1.  The K401 or K400 midrange horn and K55 driver are just under 28" long, I think.  Perhaps it could be set back into the wall, thus gaining a few inches.  
  2. The mouth of that horn needs to be firmly attached to a flange, normally the front baffle board of the top hat, to avoid vibration (ringing) of the horn. 

So, we might be looking at a custom, built-in, partial top hat above the TV.

 

This might be too much of a wrench to deal with, but if done, I would predict that it would be worth it.

 

All I can say is we have Khorns and a totally hidden, flush mounted, Belle center channel, with the shorter Belle midrange replaced by a K401, with the whole thing buried in the wall and beyond (see attachment), and it sounds great, and, partly because we crossover to a sub at 40Hz (after many experiments), we usually can't notice that the Belle sounds any different than the Khorns.  musicc room pics & text.pdf

Some pages have large blank areas -- keep scrolling down until you see  my signature, Gary.  Thanks.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not crazy about the Center Channel since most of them

don't sound good as the mains.

My System sounds fine without a Center and the Speakers

Place everything, including Dialogue, where it should be.

That being said, I use Two Center Channel Speakers.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, rebuy said:

I'm not crazy about the Center Channel since most of them

don't sound good as the mains.

My System sounds fine without a Center and the Speakers

Place everything, including Dialogue, where it should be.

That being said, I use Two Center Channel Speakers.

 

 

I use a Phantom channel center (no center channel) on our extra TV in the bedroom.  While it works fine, the Left and Right channels are only about  40" apart, and we are 3 times as far away as they are apart.

 

Just for ducks, we tried a 2 channel front array with no center in our home theater, with viewers an average of 13 feet away, with mains' tweeters about 17 inches from their respective side walls, in a room 16.75 feet wide.  Someone sitting in the center seat, pretending to use the proverbial head clamp, got an acceptable center image with dialogue centered, but that was not true for any other seat.  With a center channel and speaker, dialogue was well placed even from the side seats.

 

When you say that most Center Channels don't sound as good as the mains, do you mean that the Center Channel speakers sound inferior to the mains, or that the audio signal fed to the Center is, itself, inferior?  I certainly agree that many CC speakers are worse than the mains, in fact the Achilles Heel of Home Theater.  My impression is that the CC signal is usually about as good as that sent to the mains, with exceptions occurring rarely.  

 

The OP has Klipschorns that look like they are even more widely spaced than mine, so I would predict that he needs a Center Channel.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Quarter Pie bass horn with the mid horn of your choice would fit your space. My center with the big EV 640 on top is only 30 inches tall. There are good smaller mid horns that would work well too and reduce the height further. This will have no issues keeping up with Klipschorns.

 

IMG_4404.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know this is probably sacrilege, but an RC-64 would fit perfectly. I would raise the TV up and put the center under. Would it be possible to get it to sound right? I don't know and yes I am probably an idiot for even making such a suggestion. 

My thinking is, the center channel is primarily for dialogue.

Edited by Dr_jitsu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/10/2021 at 5:22 PM, Tom05 said:

Unfortunately anything other than a Lascala or  Bell is a SERIOUS compromise to your fabulous Klipschorn mains. The best solution for myself was to move to a projector and place the Lascala behind the screen . Then you have the ultimate front stage .


Sonically, brilliant...but the jump to projector is a pretty serious commitment. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...