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Home theater with Khorns


jebartist
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The sidewalls my Khorns are located to are 17'9" in width. I haven't tried a phantom center with this setup, as it was suggested earlier that my front stage is too wide for that. I realize 2 channel listening isn't the same, but damn it has a center image that is amazing!

 

I can't raise my TV unless I put the stand mount on it and sit it on my, yet to be made, TV console.

 

I am in the process now of eliminating all my Emotiva amps. They work great, but just so big and heavy. I've recently heard Jeff Rowland amps and am now in the process of selling my future grand children to replace all my Emotiva gear. 2 Jeff Rowland 201 mono blocks arrived today to start the madness. I also found someone local to me that as an integrated that will work into the new setup and handle 2 more channels. Isn't home theater/2 channel listening fun!

 

With the smaller footprint amps, I can gain some room under the TV. I might possibly be able to DIY a chopped up La Scala into a center. Hmmm...

IMG_4892.jpg

Edited by jebartist
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5 hours ago, Tom05 said:

What about reversing your layout , front  stage to the window side ,cover the window, better off without it anyway . Tv over the Lascala, 

There's a door to a bathroom in one of the corners on that side of the room. Also, the side surrounds would fall right into a door as well. It's really at the only layout I could do in this room.

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You’ve got a  nice collection of speakers there . Another  solution to your problem , and it’s a little unusual, is to use 2 center channels, flanking your TV . This may sound strange but it actually works pretty well. You could  test the  idea with your Cornwalls or Chorus,  you can run your centers in series if needed .It will give you a strong center image. 

 

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20 hours ago, Tom05 said:

You’ve got a  nice collection of speakers there . Another  solution to your problem , and it’s a little unusual, is to use 2 center channels, flanking your TV . This may sound strange but it actually works pretty well. You could  test the  idea with your Cornwalls or Chorus,  you can run your centers in series if needed .It will give you a strong center image. 

 

Thank you Tom05, you've given me a lot of food for thought. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/11/2021 at 11:03 PM, Dr_jitsu said:


Sonically, brilliant...but the jump to projector is a pretty serious commitment. 

I’ve always loved a projected image, even when I was a kid . Unfortunately it isn’t very practical unless you have a dedicated room for it . If you look closely you will see a Lascala behind the screen in photo.8D6CE907-6021-4982-BDAD-E4F91F6C046D.thumb.jpeg.be3e3d88fd336ab1885b0bf553287193.jpeg

Edited by Tom05
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 I got to looking at your surround speaker layout, and they are extremely close to your seating positions , It’s not normally  good to have those big horn speakers like yours blasting within a few feet of your ears , very distracting, and unnatural , turning them down will only help a little, I think your surround speaker  choice is excellent, but it will be a challenge to get it right . I had a lot of the same problems with my setup ,including center channel . 🤓

Edited by Tom05
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Thanks Tom. I have done some tuning with them and the surrounds volume was turned down soon after I initially turned on the setup.

 

Coincidently, I have been contemplating moving my surrounds to other rooms of my house and getting some 'actual surround speakers'. I'm realizing just how little of signal the surrounds actually get.

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Yea  , that could be a good move in your case, going with ‘ actual surround speakers ‘ positioned probably a bit higher than ear level .Also nothing wrong with a 5.1 system , the law of diminishing returns really come into play ,especially when seating is so close to rear wall . Also if I understand your post , you did not like a Heresy as center , a Heresy really should sound pretty darn good as center , might want to listen for awhile ,study carefully and play with center gain , I like running center a db or 2 hotter than mains .

Edited by Tom05
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Also the Heresy slant back base is a plus in my opinion. From my experience the Heresy is about as good as it gets for a Klipschorn center , (except for Lascala).My Heresy II’s matched the AK2 Klipschorns  perfectly as center , Heresy should sound excellent with your mains, but will show it’s limitations especially at extremely loud sound levels. 

Edited by Tom05
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The Heresy just has a thinner sound than the Khorns. Heresy's are great sounding speakers, but when you try to compare them to the Khorn, they lack that fullness.

 

One thing that I keep changing my mind about taking these surrounds out is multi-channel listening is phenomenal. 

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I like the multi channel also ,(Dolby pl2 music ), sounds great!  Interesting that you find the Heresy thin, I would make sure that it is working properly, and that it hasn’t been modified in anyway .Also make sure you set the center channel to small , sending low bass to mains , and run the center a few db hot ,use a sound level meter , if this isn’t set correctly the center will sound weak ,if still not satisfied put the Cornwall in there and see what you have . The Heresy should sound very very similar to the Cornwall. Also temporary lay a blanket on the floor in front of the center and tip back the Heresy if it doesn’t have the slant risers . The Heresy was PWK’s original Klipschorn center channel , so we  know that it works. 

Edited by Tom05
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On 1/10/2022 at 4:59 AM, Tom05 said:

The Heresy was PWK’s original Klipschorn center channel , so we  know that it works.

  • Yes, it works, but PWK underwent a slight mind change.  He felt that it is a little better to have a fully horn loaded center channel, i.e., a La Scala or a Belle Klipsch, rather than a Heresy or a Cornwall, because the perception of a whole array tends to sound like it has almost as much modulation distortion as the speaker with the most modulation (Doppler) distortion, i.e. the highest number of harmonically unrelated sidebands.  So in a three speaker array, the center speaker should have just about as low modulation distortion as the flanking speakers.  This is in one of the Dope from Hope bulletins.
  • I agree with you, @Tom05, on simulated or derived multichannel.  I really like Dolby PL II Music (didn't think I would) for two channel recordings.  The 5 channel simulation helps "open up" the sound, more so on some recordings than others.  But, even better is SACD multichannel (mostly classical and jazz).  Obviously, your player has to be able to decode SACDs.  Contrary to the continuous requiem for SACD we hear in the audio press, there are still many classical and jazz SACDs out there.  
  • Although we stream movies, we haven't selected a music streaming service yet ... a big project.
  • N.B. for anyone considering a projector and screen: our 130" (true width, not diagonal) "acoustically transparent" Seymour roll down 'scope (2.35:1) screen is immersive, sometimes thrilling, especially with Blu-rays of 70mm films, meant for huge screens in cinemas (Lawrence of Arabia, the original Around the World in 80 Days (1956) in Todd-AO, with a few shots using their 128 degree camera lens, How the West Was Won in Cinerama's 145 degree view (available in Smile Box),  films in D150, etc., can't wait to try The Hateful Eight).  I know it's expensive -- it took us about 15 years of planning, saving up, building, etc. -- but  it is a joy!  We eschewed a cinema-like home theater, in favor of multi-purpose.  It's a sort of library-projection room-music room.  We use the same Khorn system for our music and our movies.  Wish I could attach pics of the whole room, but the 2 MB limit ... if you'd like to see the whole room, see my post responding to @jebartist of December 6 -- the attachment on that post actually worked without being truncated.  What Cinerama looks like in our home theater.docx
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12 hours ago, garyrc said:
  • Yes, it works, but PWK underwent a slight mind change.  He felt that it is a little better to have a fully horn loaded center channel, i.e., a La Scala or a Belle Klipsch, rather than a Heresy or a Cornwall, because the perception of a whole array tends to sound like it has almost as much modulation distortion as the speaker with the most modulation (Doppler) distortion, i.e. the highest number of harmonically unrelated sidebands.  So in a three speaker array, the center speaker should have just about as low modulation distortion as the flanking speakers.  This is in one of the Dope from Hope bulletins.
  • I agree with you, @Tom05, on simulated or derived multichannel.  I really like Dolby PL II Music (didn't think I would) for two channel recordings.  The 5 channel simulation helps "open up" the sound, more so on some recordings than others.  But, even better is SACD multichannel (mostly classical and jazz).  Obviously, your player has to be able to decode SACDs.  Contrary to the continuous requiem for SACD we hear in the audio press, there are still many classical and jazz SACDs out there.  
  • Although we stream movies, we haven't selected a music streaming service yet ... a big project.
  • N.B. for anyone considering a projector and screen: our 130" (true width, not diagonal) "acoustically transparent" Seymour roll down 'scope (2.35:1) screen is immersive, sometimes thrilling, especially with Blu-rays of 70mm films, meant for huge screens in cinemas (Lawrence of Arabia, the original Around the World in 80 Days (1956) in Todd-AO, with a few shots using their 128 degree camera lens, How the West Was Won in Cinerama's 145 degree view (available in Smile Box),  films in D150, etc., can't wait to try The Hateful Eight).  I know it's expensive -- it took us about 15 years of planning, saving up, building, etc. -- but  it is a joy!  We eschewed a cinema-like home theater, in favor of multi-purpose.  It's a sort of library-projection room-music room.  We use the same Khorn system for our music and our movies.  Wish I could attach pics of the whole room, but the 2 MB limit ... What Cinerama looks like in our home theater.docx

Big sound, big screen ,  We speak same language kemosabe 🤓

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No need for a center channel, just stick with the two pair.

 

----

Background:

I dug through some old photos to find one of my many versions of a Klipschorn Home Theater. 

 

Starting with..At one point I had a 5.1 Klipschorn left and right, and LaScala for everything else. I used a horn loaded subwoofer as well. Throughout the years I returned to just the Klipschorns. Mostly for the simplicity. 

 

I think they were about 18' apart. Anyways, I felt no need for a center. The speaker plain rocks. Music or Movies.

 

Today, I have a "latest and greatest" tech type home theater.  I moved, a while back, and I still have all the gear, just sitting in the garage until I get the itch again. This forum topic is feeding that monster. So much so I did do a rendering. 

IMG_0308.jpeg

IMG_7029.jpeg

IMG_7028.jpeg

Screen Shot 2022-01-13 at 1.27.37 PM.png

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