rickstersas Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Just acquired a pair of belle klipsch cabinets. 1975 with conservative serial numbers. No speakers or crossovers. I've been pondering and crunching numbers for weeks trying to determine what I'm going to do with these beauties. Buy brand new crites everything ? Convert to altec model 19 clone? Put in radio shack mach 4 or whatever they are? Then it hit me. Buy a used pair of heresy's and put everything in the belles. The woofer 13x3 slot would be modified to match the 12 inch woofer. Have I gone mad or would this super heresy mod be worth the effort. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 You've gone mad. Get a K33 to put inside them. If you're going to fix them up, do it right. Parts are easily available. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 I assume the squawker horns are also missing. Assuming the availability of a suitable squawker horn, I like the all Crites solution. Please don’t use a 12” woofer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Now, if you want to get creative....you can enlarge the opening on top and pop a K510 in there. This will easily surpass the traditional K400/401 and K77 combo but, you might want (need) to then go active verses passive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Defiantly go with 15". Many like a pair of these which are now on backorder. Read the reviews. https://www.parts-express.com/Eminence-KAPPA-15C-15-Driver-4-Ohm-290-459 Or go with Crites 15" speakers. Many horns available along with drivers at Parts Express that will work fine as well. This midrange driver is a good choice https://www.parts-express.com/Selenium-D250-X-1-Phenolic-Horn-Driver-1-3-8-18-TPI-264-204. Just find a horn that will fit in the space in the cabinet. Many excellent horns and drivers for the highs available at good prices. Crites for crossovers. Nice looking cabinet by the way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 CritesSpeakers also has a cast horn for the midrange, that would pretty much be the same as the original Klipsch cast horn. @Coytee A k-400 wouldn't fit. Best not to butcher the cabinets when the most complex and beautiful part of the Belle IS the cabinet. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 44 minutes ago, Marvel said: A k-400 wouldn't fit. Was a test question.... you passed! Or, perhaps I totally forgot! Thanks for the correction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 40 minutes ago, Marvel said: CritesSpeakers also has a cast horn for the midrange, that would pretty much be the same as the original Klipsch cast horn. @Coytee A k-400 wouldn't fit. Best not to butcher the cabinets when the most complex and beautiful part of the Belle IS the cabinet. I agree. If you don't want those Belles then patiently acquire the parts to build out a set and sell them off for good money. I think these types of speakers should be preserved or at least whatever you elect to do does not involve cutting up parts of the cabinet and can be easily reversed to stock configuration. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 @rickstersas, not sure how far along the Klipsch journey you have gotten, so there are some fundamentals to clear up. Belles are “horn loaded” bass and Heresys are “direct radiating” bass. The two are different in their design and resultant sonic presentation. EVERYTHING about the two speakers has been engineered to take the sum total of ALL of the parts and cabinets into account. Swapping Heresy parts into a Belle will produce sound, but it will fall far below it’s awesome potential (it will sound like crap). Horn loaded bass is fast and punchy and clean. Big dual woofer direct radiating speakers can do it too. As mentioned a 12” woofer would be a fail in this bass bin. Also as mentioned, if starting from scratch the Kappa 15C or Crites 15” woofer would work nicely. Again, as mentioned, going 2-way with an active crossover would be the cat’s pyjamas if just starting fresh. If not for the ability to custom tailor EVERYTHING about the driver’s response, the price of new crossovers and components has leapt off the table recently. As an aside, whatever you wind up with will skip a valence with the addition of a good subwoofer. It is important to note that due to the physics of folded horn bass bins they do not play as low say your KG 4.2s (?). Off the cuff, you are probably looking at a minimum of a grand for a 3-way with a passive crossover if you get lucky in the used market. You could drop all the guts of a La Scala in them if you don’t mind the mid horn sticking out the rear a couple inches. The K-500 that belongs in the Belle seems to be a rare bird. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 get the Crites stuff and don't look back. NO to the 12" driver. Bobs K-33 replacement is excellent, fully scienced out. he has a good K-55 driver replacement. See if he has a drop-in K-500 replacement horn. He does have a drop-in K-77 replacement that's actually better than a k-77. His crossovers are known good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson3 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Those are holy grail material - is there a generic horn close to a 510? re: throwing a k22 in there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Tom Mobley said: Bobs K-33 replacement is excellent, fully scienced out. My recollection of a story he once told is that he called the manufacturer, said he wanted to buy for example, 20 "K33's" and put his name on them. "Can't do that, the K33 is exclusive to Klipsch however, you can give us whatever design parameters you want and we can do that" So, he got the TS parameters for the K33, called them back and said I want to order 20 drivers with the TS parameters of A, B, C, D..... So as a practical matter, the driver that Bob sells "IS" a K33 with his name stamped on them. The reality certainly may have evolved but that's how I think he said it started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 There is a cast 600Hz and 700Hz horn available. I would call Michael to see. I thought he had one for the Belle, but 600 would be too high a cutoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 52 minutes ago, karlson3 said: is there a generic horn close to a 510? There is, but without the 'mumps'. http://www.zxpc.us/product-p/333537431240.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 12 hours ago, geoff. said: @rickstersas, not sure how far along the Klipsch journey you have gotten, so there are some fundamentals to clear up. Belles are “horn loaded” bass and Heresys are “direct radiating” bass. The two are different in their design and resultant sonic presentation. EVERYTHING about the two speakers has been engineered to take the sum total of ALL of the parts and cabinets into account. Swapping Heresy parts into a Belle will produce sound, but it will fall far below it’s awesome potential (it will sound like crap). Horn loaded bass is fast and punchy and clean. Big dual woofer direct radiating speakers can do it too. As mentioned a 12” woofer would be a fail in this bass bin. Also as mentioned, if starting from scratch the Kappa 15C or Crites 15” woofer would work nicely. Again, as mentioned, going 2-way with an active crossover would be the cat’s pyjamas if just starting fresh. If not for the ability to custom tailor EVERYTHING about the driver’s response, the price of new crossovers and components has leapt off the table recently. As an aside, whatever you wind up with will skip a valence with the addition of a good subwoofer. It is important to note that due to the physics of folded horn bass bins they do not play as low say your KG 4.2s (?). Off the cuff, you are probably looking at a minimum of a grand for a 3-way with a passive crossover if you get lucky in the used market. You could drop all the guts of a La Scala in them if you don’t mind the mid horn sticking out the rear a couple inches. The K-500 that belongs in the Belle seems to be a rare bird. Just thought I would add to above statement. The horn loaded bass is what sets the Belle's, Lascala's and K-horn apart from the rest. You definitely want the quickness and punch of the horn loaded bass using a 15" woofer or you would be wasting a fine speaker concept. Throw in a decent sub at a later date and be you will be happy. Price a pair of Belle's on Ebay and you will see they are very treasured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwgorman Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Yeah, just sell them to me and be done with it. I will restore them to factory specs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickstersas Posted August 11, 2021 Author Share Posted August 11, 2021 Thanks to everyone that responded. I agree to restore these as faithfully to the originals as possible. Lots of great ideas. I think they will make a perfect companion to my LaScalas 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TasDom Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 Those grills on your LF cabinets look different from the Belle's I've seen and own. Did someone change them? (one of mine for reference) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 On 8/8/2021 at 10:46 AM, rickstersas said: Just acquired a pair of belle klipsch cabinets. 1975 with conservative serial numbers. No speakers or crossovers. I've been pondering and crunching numbers for weeks trying to determine what I'm going to do with these beauties You can call klipsch Parts and order some K33E , these are the woofers for this speaker -----while you're at it , ask themave if they have some k501 - that's the horn for those speakers - then you need tweeters - midrange drivers , so another 800$ ---klipsch may still have some K55x And some K77-D or F - and to finish , you need crossovers and badges , another 400-500$ - so in total close to about 2k$ in parts - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 10 minutes ago, TasDom said: Those grills on your LF cabinets look different could be cane fabric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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