Will they work in this room?

[Maggie]

Hello,

Iḿ new to this forum and have a question concerning big klipschorns.

I know Klipschorns use the walls in a room as a horn. My room isn't  that big and one of the walls is open. ( see pic).

Does this mean the Klipsch won't operate as it should in this room?

 Thanks.

 

[billybob]

19 minutes ago, Maggie said:

Hello,

Iḿ new to this forum and have a question concerning big klipschorns.

I know Klipschorns use the walls in a room as a horn. My room isn't  that big and one of the walls is open. ( see pic).

Does this mean the Klipsch won't operate as it should in this room?

 Thanks.

 

Welcome to the forum @Maggie...

The members will say yes.

Let's both learn more...

thanks.

[Shakeydeal]

Quote

Does this mean the Klipsch won't operate as it should in this room?

 

That is correct. You need two good corners. Some will say they will work in any size room with two good corners. I say there is a minimum distance for them to be apart for best results.

 

Bottom line is

 

Corners -Absolutely

 

Size - Depends on who you ask.

 

Shakey

[Maggie]

1 hour ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

That is correct. You need two good corners. Some will say they will work in any size room with two good corners. I say there is a minimum distance for them to be apart for best results.

 

Bottom line is

 

Corners -Absolutely

 

Size - Depends on who you ask.

 

Shakey

Thank you very much. 

[Chris A]

3 hours ago, Maggie said:

...I know Klipschorns use the walls in a room as a horn. My room isn't that big and one of the walls is open. ( see pic).  Does this mean the Klipsch won't operate as it should in this room?

"Operate as it should" includes a wide variability in interpretation.  Perhaps if you can briefly discuss what kind of music you tend to listen to (i.e., rock, classical, jazz, dance, etc.), how loud, how soft, and what your expectations are, it will be much easier to answer your question.  It's not yet clear what your intent or expectations are. 

 

For instance, if you were to identify with David Mancuso (RIP) or Colleen (Cosmo) Murphy's environments at The Loft parties in New York City, then that assumes a certain type of music, an average loudness level, and music genre type/source (i.e., lots of older music only found on vinyl), and a certain musical or entertainment aesthetic.

 

 

If however, you're into close monitoring of audiophile style recordings of largely digital provenance, then that conveys an entirely different aesthetic. 

 

 

 

In the first scenario, you might be quite satisfied, just guessing from the picture (assuming dimensions there).  In the other scenario, not so much, especially if the room dimensions don't allow you to listen from far enough away from the loudspeakers for them to coalesce well and develop a natural bass response without the entire room being in the "pressure zone" like listening inside an automobile interior.  Having a bit more room internal volume and distance allows the Khorns to "breathe" well and give the listener a sense of space.

 

I have found that there are effectively minimum room dimensions that limit using stock Khorns (...or any sort of loudspeakers, for that matter...).  That seems to be about 8 feet of height (due to the collapsing polar midrange horns used), and about 13-14 feet for length and width (assuming an enclosed room).  At smaller dimensions, the limitations of using Khorns (in particular) begin to become dominant quite rapidly.  Some of the source of these issues has to do with not being able to move back a little bit from them and space them a bit wider side-to-side to further increase that listening distance.  Anyone walking around the loudspeakers and interacting with that sound field just around the loudspeakers will be immediately apparent, I've found...even if not in a direct line of sight to the loudspeakers from the listener.

 

The openings in the room to other rooms that you show definitely aren't show stoppers--in fact, they will likely help psychoacoustically, but the minimum dimensions of the room itself (length, width, and height) will likely be significant in my experience, even if you go to great lengths to EQ and time align them (i.e., correct their output for extreme nearfield listening).  

 

Some minimal discussion of room acoustic treatments in the nearfield is likely going to be fruitful going into that dialogue.  Like how to handle the ceiling and floor bounce and keeping the area within about 3-4 feet of the front panels of the Khorns free of acoustically reflective objects (or at least heavily covered with absorptive material)--including electronics and furniture.  I'd avoid "entertainment centers" and anything that places electronics near the loudspeakers within 4 feet on centerline height with the midrange horns.

 

Chris

[Maggie]

1 hour ago, Chris A said:

"Operate as it should" includes a wide variability in interpretation.  Perhaps if you can briefly discuss what kind of music you tend to listen to (i.e., rock, classical, jazz, dance, etc.), how loud, how soft, and what your expectations are, it will be much easier to answer your question.  It's not yet clear what your intent or expectations are. 

 

For instance, if you were to identify with David Mancuso (RIP) or Colleen (Cosmo) Murphy's environments at The Loft parties in New York City, then that assumes a certain type of music, an average loudness level, and music genre type/source (i.e., lots of older music only found on vinyl), and a certain musical or entertainment aesthetic.

 

 

If however, you're into close monitoring of audiophile style recordings of largely digital provenance, then that conveys an entirely different aesthetic. 

 

 

 

In the first scenario, you might be quite satisfied, just guessing from the picture (assuming dimensions there).  In the other scenario, not so much, especially if the room dimensions don't allow you to listen from far enough away from the loudspeakers for them to coalesce well and develop a natural bass response without the entire room being in the "pressure zone" like listening inside an automobile interior.  Having a bit more room internal volume and distance allows the Khorns to "breathe" well and give the listener a sense of space.

 

I have found that there are effectively minimum room dimensions that limit using stock Khorns (...or any sort of loudspeakers, for that matter...).  That seems to be about 8 feet of height (due to the collapsing polar midrange horns used), and about 13-14 feet for length and width (assuming an enclosed room).  At smaller dimensions, the limitations of using Khorns (in particular) begin to become dominant quite rapidly.  Some of the source of these issues has to do with not being able to move back a little bit from them and space them a bit wider side-to-side to further increase that listening distance.  Anyone walking around the loudspeakers and interacting with that sound field just around the loudspeakers will be immediately apparent, I've found...even if not in a direct line of sight to the loudspeakers from the listener.

 

The openings in the room to other rooms that you show definitely aren't show stoppers--in fact, they will likely help psychoacoustically, but the minimum dimensions of the room itself (length, width, and height) will likely be significant in my experience, even if you go to great lengths to EQ and time align them (i.e., correct their output for extreme nearfield listening).  

 

Some minimal discussion of room acoustic treatments in the nearfield is likely going to be fruitful going into that dialogue.  Like how to handle the ceiling and floor bounce and keeping the area within about 3-4 feet of the front panels of the Khorns free of acoustically reflective objects (or at least heavily covered with absorptive material)--including electronics and furniture.  I'd avoid "entertainment centers" and anything that places electronics near the loudspeakers within 4 feet on centerline height with the midrange horns.

 

Chris

Thank you for your extensive reply.

The room is 24x24 feet. The part in the picture is 15x24. The listening chair is at 12 feet from the speakers.

Ceiling height is 8 feet.

Music I listen to is a mix of Classical and jazz.

[Marvel]

Nice! A sketch of the floor plan and placement of the speakers, furniture, windows, can point the discussion in the right direction. Chris already gave you the big picture, and I'm sure it's a workable scenario.

 

And welcome to the forums. Pay no attention when we try to tell you how to spend your money. 😁

 

Bruce

[billybob]

I approve Maggie...

[Maggie]

A sketch of the room.

I want to build them myself. I've built some cabinets in the past before.

Never heard Klipschorns in my life before. I'm from europe and over here you seldom see them. I've seen them in life as a kid and always loved their design.

In the past I have owned Tannoy D 900's and Piegas.The last couple of  years I have been listening to Magnepans which I love.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Maggie

[Maggie]

4 hours ago, Marvel said:

Nice! A sketch of the floor plan and placement of the speakers, furniture, windows, can point the discussion in the right direction. Chris already gave you the big picture, and I'm sure it's a workable scenario.

 

And welcome to the forums. Pay no attention when we try to tell you how to spend your money. 😁

 

Bruce

Thank you.

[OO1]

23 hours ago, Maggie said:

Hello,

Iḿ new to this forum and have a question concerning big klipschorns.

I know Klipschorns use the walls in a room as a horn. My room isn't  that big and one of the walls is open. ( see pic).

Does this mean the Klipsch won't operate as it should in this room?

 Thanks.

 

we have to make a distinction ---------there are 2 types of Khorns ----open backs , and enclosed backs

 

[OO1]

1 hour ago, Maggie said:

A sketch of the room.

I want to build them myself. I've built some cabinets in the past

 DIY khorns-- good luck -

[Marvel]

5 hours ago, RandyH said:

 DIY khorns-- good luck -

 

They are difficult to build, 50+ pieces per cabinet a compound angle cuts.

 

The Speaker Labs SK plans have pretty good instructions. There are folks on here who have built them. I have a cd with those and some variations. 

[ricktate]

Unless your a above average woodworker you will be better off buying some used ones. They will work better on the that other long wall. But I do have mine 14 feet apart and they work fine.  Might need to move chair closer. 

[ricktate]

[Wirrunna]

This old thread may be of interest.....

 

[Maggie]

I understand open side baffles is less than perfect in my constellation.

Lascala's or Cornwalls than.

 

[Marvel]

I have plans on PC at home... they will be in English measurements... just three hours to go before I get home. I have PDFs of LaScala (original), 2 port and 3 port Cornwall (original). Don't have the Cornwall II, III, or IV, or the LaScala II or newer.

[Marvel]

Here are the La Scala drawings, in PDF format. The will scale to print on standard letter size, but are 36x24in. Also a set of build instructions by the late Dennis Kleitsch. There's a timeline of the La Scala, I think done by Mark Kauffmanm, and an exploded view of the cabinet I made some years ago (missing one piece - if you find it you don't get a toaster).

 

 

LaScala.pdf LS Time Line MK 060411.pdf La Scala_build_instructions.pdf

[Maggie]

5 hours ago, Marvel said:

Here are the La Scala drawings, in PDF format. The will scale to print on standard letter size, but are 36x24in. Also a set of build instructions by the late Dennis Kleitsch. There's a timeline of the La Scala, I think done by Mark Kauffmanm, and an exploded view of the cabinet I made some years ago (missing one piece - if you find it you don't get a toaster).

 

 

LaScala.pdf 309.79 kB · 2 downloads LS Time Line MK 060411.pdf 8.6 kB · 3 downloads La Scala_build_instructions.pdf 16.46 kB · 2 downloads

Thank you so much.It's highly appreciated.