The Speaker Formerly Known As Klipsch

[Travis In Austin]

4 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

Didn't we just have a thread on this?

 

I got the answer to my question.

 

I merged the two threads together.

[billybob]

Don't argue with me Tom, lol.

You are the authority in my book. And too cool to argue.

Just think someone may have crossed RacerX here along the way. Unfortunately...

 

[Travis In Austin]

3 minutes ago, Racer X said:

Thanks, Tom

Yes, thank you Tom.

 

@Racer X do not post another response or reply to Tom in this thread.

[Racer X]

Hmm, The purpose of this post was to ascertain exactly where a mod to a Klipsch speaker renders it no longer a Klipsch speaker.  I realize there may be different opinions on this point and thought I had laid out a nice groundwork for some discussion.  But, NOOOOO, this has quickly devolved into something else, and this moderator merge of the two threads is not really well understood.

 

Lost cause, best of luck.

[Travis In Austin]

2 minutes ago, Racer X said:

Hmm, The purpose of this post was to ascertain exactly where a mod to a Klipsch speaker renders it no longer a Klipsch speaker.  I realize there may be different opinions on this point and thought I had laid out a nice groundwork for some discussion.  But, NOOOOO, this has quickly devolved into something else, and this moderator merge of the two threads is not really well understood.

 

Lost cause, best of luck.

It's not understood? Same subject, new thread. 

 

Why not simply post you original post in the thread you created on the exact same subject?

 

There didn't seem to be much discussion. 

 

Or is it that you have an agenda.

 

I always get concerned when someone says they plan to leave. Without exception that has always ended with a dramatic swan dive off of a 10 story building. 

 

Hope you stay, hope you share, hope you engage in friendly dialogue. 

 

However, like Klipsch speakers, a friendly, respectful forum isn't for everyone. 

[ClaudeJ1]

1 hour ago, PrestonTom said:

Yes, they are frequently modified. Yes, those that modify them do claim that they sound better.

 

When I see some of the stuff that folks are doing, for instance changing the output of the mids by -3 or -6 dB (via changing taps on the autoformer) then I become suspicious.

 

A change of -6 dB is huge. Do you really think the engineers screwed it up that much to warrant a 6 dB drop on the mid horn? The safe bet is that this is not an issue of making it sound better. Rather it is an issue of making it sound "different". Maybe the "Klipsch sound" is not for them. That's okay but wouldn't it be easier to buy a different brand. You should not have to make such large changes to a speaker. 

 

My 2 cents,

-Tom

My 2 more cents. I'm the guy who modified a 44 year old Heresy Box, about 7 years ago (much to the delight of those who tried it).

 

The ONLY reason I changed the Tap on the T2A was because I had to change the Capacitors to keep the same crossover point right along with that because the Woofer I used (an original Klipsch K-42 woofer that came out of a Klipsch PRO Theater speaker was 3 db more sensitive. After careful simulations, I ended up with the same port area as a Klipsch HIP, which had, essentially, a Khorn Network with 

 

Basically, I ended up using the same Port Volume as the Klipsch after simulations, the fact that I used ALL Klipsch components, modified and E Crossover which ended up like a Cornwall B with Tweet and Mid connections reversed shows that the same exact thing would have been done the exact same way Klipsch Engineers would have done it if given the chance. The only difference was the bass port ended up in the rear, which gave it a "wall/corner boost."

[ClaudeJ1]

6 hours ago, Racer X said:

Yes, to my ears, in my room, the engineers really did screw it up that much to warrant a 6 db drop on the mids.  Or the LaScala requries a -7 db drop at precisely 148 Hz, it definitely has a pronounced hump in it's response, and some call this a feature or glitch.  There are always compromises in design and implementation and my preferences, values, and exectution may be wholly different from someone else.

 

I do not wish to criticize engineering decisions I am not privy to.  The Klipsch line is generally a great speaker left alone and a great starting point for those interested in tuning and refining.

That's why it's called "Voicing." 

[Chief bonehead]

8 hours ago, DizRotus said:

Roy @Chief bonehead would say that any modification makes it something other than Klipsch.  I wonder if putting NGK spark plugs in a Corvette makes it no longer a Chevy.

Actually Paul klipsch said that....and I whole heartedly agree with him. 

[Chief bonehead]

8 hours ago, MicroMara said:

We have all known that for a long time .. Once he said....." it´s your speaker " not a Klipsch anymore " .....

Correct

[Chief bonehead]

7 hours ago, Racer X said:

Yes, to my ears, in my room, the engineers really did screw it up that much to warrant a 6 db drop on the mids.  Or the LaScala requries a -7 db drop at precisely 148 Hz, it definitely has a pronounced hump in it's response, and some call this a feature or glitch.  There are always compromises in design and implementation and my preferences, values, and exectution may be wholly different from someone else.

 

I do not wish to criticize engineering decisions I am not privy to.  The Klipsch line is generally a great speaker left alone and a great starting point for those interested in tuning and refining.

We’ve been screwing up for years....75 to be exact. 

[Chief bonehead]

7 hours ago, Racer X said:

Not riled, and certainly appreciate any input.  But have to push back on suggestion "Klipsch sound" not for me as I am not worthy or don't appreciate it and I should not make such drastic changes and I should consider shopping elsewhere for a more appropriate sound rather than make simple tweaks or adjustments.

If you change it then it’s not for you...

[Chief bonehead]

7 hours ago, JohnJ said:

I had one of Claude's first pair of Super Heresy for a year or two and can tell you the mid range and the tweeters were to the front of the imaging moreso than on the heresy II that I had owned for three decades almost. Played with their placement in a big room with a vaulted ceiling ran the amp on flat and the sound was reminiscent the LaScalas that I had heard for the first time the previous year. Having their drivers and a different x over did the job @ClaudeJ1 intended. They were a completely different animal then!!

Claudes speakers. Not Klipsch’s. 

[PrestonTom]

5 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

My 2 more cents. I'm the guy who modified a 44 year old Heresy Box, about 7 years ago (much to the delight of those who tried it).

 

The ONLY reason I changed the Tap on the T2A was because I had to change the Capacitors to keep the same crossover point right along with that because the Woofer I used (an original Klipsch K-42 woofer that came out of a Klipsch PRO Theater speaker was 3 db more sensitive. After careful simulations, I ended up with the same port area as a Klipsch HIP, which had, essentially, a Khorn Network with 

 

Basically, I ended up using the same Port Volume as the Klipsch after simulations, the fact that I used ALL Klipsch components, modified and E Crossover which ended up like a Cornwall B with Tweet and Mid connections reversed shows that the same exact thing would have been done the exact same way Klipsch Engineers would have done it if given the chance. The only difference was the bass port ended up in the rear, which gave it a "wall/corner boost."

Claude, you seem to think this was directed at you for some reason. Believe me you are not the only person who has changed the taps on an autoformer (for whatever reason)

[Edgar]

6 hours ago, Chief bonehead said:

We’ve been screwing up for years....75 to be exact. 

@Chief bonehead; a serious and respectful narrative followed by a serious and respectful inquiry:

 

You have faithfully and successfully worked to maintain and advance Mr. Klipsch's legacy in a series of loudspeaker products, and I believe we all respect that. But Mr. Klipsch departed in 2002, nineteen years ago. So much has changed since then. Oh, not the basic physics of horn loudspeakers, but the technology that supports them: materials science, digital signal processing, computational power, finite element analysis, high-efficiency amplification, multiple-entry horns, coaxial compression drivers, tapped-horn subwoofers, to name a few. Some of these were only in their infancy when Mr. Klipsch passed. So it is difficult to predict whether Mr. Klipsch might have incorporated them into his loudspeakers, and if so, how.

 

That leads to my inquiry: At some point you will run out of future concepts that Mr. Klipsch held dear. So what would a "Delgadohorn" look like? What are some of the things that YOU would like to see in Klipsch loudspeakers that simply weren't available to Mr. Klipsch?

[henry4841]

If you make changes to your speakers and they sound better in your room to you who cares what others think. Before internet and social forums one would not have such conversations we now have about not being Klipsch. There really is no such thing as a Klipsch sound. Horns sound like horns no matter the manufacturer. Klipsch speakers are designed as one size fits all rooms which is never the case. Once you buy a speaker it is yours to do with as you please so I just say ignore what is said on social media forums from those that have never heard your system or speakers. 

 

This is really a silly discussion for those that have nothing better to do. Enjoy what you have or rather what you have done to make your speaker sound better to your ears and ignore the critics. Enjoy music. 

[CECAA850]

1 hour ago, Edgar said:

@Chief bonehead; 

 

That leads to my inquiry: At some point you will run out of future concepts that Mr. Klipsch held dear. So what would a "Delgadohorn" look like? What are some of the things that YOU would like to see in Klipsch loudspeakers that simply weren't available to Mr. Klipsch?

So a Klipsch speaker not designed by PWK?  Is it still a Klipsch speaker?  I suppose that if it was designed and built by Klipsch Corp employees it still is.  Just like Chinese Klipsch ear buds are but PWK didn't design those or their concepts did he?  I guess its a logo thing.

[CECAA850]

1 hour ago, henry4841 said:

 

This is really a silly discussion for those that have nothing better to do. 

Of course it is.  That's what we do.

[CECAA850]

15 hours ago, DizRotus said:

Roy @Chief bonehead  I wonder if putting NGK spark plugs in a Corvette makes it no longer a Chevy.

Obviously.  Same goes for using a Fram oil filter.   It is no longer a Chevrolet.

 

 

I wonder how you register it at that point?  Altered vehicle?

[richieb]

1 hour ago, henry4841 said:

. There really is no such thing as a Klipsch sound. Horns sound like horns no matter the manufacturer. 

 

This is really a silly discussion for those that have nothing better to do. Enjoy what you have or rather what you have done to make your speaker sound better to your ears and ignore the critics. Enjoy music. 

Dollar to a donut you will get pushback from every horn speaker designer that all horns sound alike. I’d about guarantee it from our resident Bonehead. 

[Racer X]

11 hours ago, Racer X said:

Thanks, Tom . . . . [Remainder deleted, personal, ad hominem) 

 

For anyone listening, the comment our moderator so cleverly replaced was "Third times the charm"

 

Some may consider this slanderous.  Enjoy it while you can, because this all soon to go away.  

 

All the best,