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Need Some Input - Did I get Duped?


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2 hours ago, Curious_George said:

I think the listed items are incorrectly marked... the 1.5mH can be a solid core since it is for the woofer. The 2.2mH should be the Litz even though it is a shunt, it may not be as audible as if it were series. 

 

I hadn't noticed that. Why would somebody use Litz wire in a woofer channel?

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1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

According to Crites website the price for AA's is $530.

 

Yeah my quote was from EBay where they are always higher. Should have gone to their website but was in a hurry and already on EBay.

 

2 hours ago, MCM_Fan said:

The four Sonicaps alone sell for $228.12. 

I have a commercial account with Sonicap and quit using them some time back because they were getting too high. Plus they only go up to 33uf and you don't want to know what those cost. One of the primary reasons to buy Sonicaps for me in the past was they had exact values for all the mid and hf circuit caps on Klipsch speakers.  Dayton 1% and Audyn red work fine for me.

 

  I think you got exactly what you paid for on these crossovers.

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Perhaps when this thread finally wanes, the original poster will have learned enough about crossovers, that he can build his own. It's quite easy in today's world with all the resources of the Internet. 

 

Maybe I've gone out on a limb, but if you read enough and comprehend what you have read, it will eventually sink in if you push through the learning curves and get your hands dirty. If it doesn't kill you it only makes you stronger or smarter right? 

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Looking over this whole thread again, there are a few things that just don't make sense:

 

Using Litz wire in a woofer channel. (Litz is designed for use at high frequencies. Was this specified by the purchaser, or by the builder? Was this the source of the builder's "nonstandard items" comment?)

 

Expecting Sonicaps at Dayton prices. (Others noted that the cost of the Sonicaps alone was almost equal to the total price.)

 

The builder posting their price and component changes on the same day that the thread emerged. (That's not something that a company changes at a moment's notice. They knew about it for at least a while. Did they fail to inform the purchaser of the change, or did the purchaser just misunderstand?)

 

I get the impression that there was never a true meeting-of-minds here. Neither party completely understood what to expect from the other.

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45 minutes ago, Dave A said:

I have a commercial account with Sonicap and quit using them some time back because they were getting too high.

 

Yes, I have used Sonicaps many times in the past.  I was pleased with the results, and knowing someone I admire and whose judgement I trust (fanboy alert!) used and recommended them made me eager to give them a try when a pair of Klipsch Fortes unexpectedly followed me home.  Then I checked the prices.  Holy cow, they'd doubled in price since the last time I'd used them.

 

So, I went with Russian military surplus K73-16 caps in my Fortes.  Very inexpensive, and so far, I'm liking them.

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10 minutes ago, Edgar said:

I get the impression that there was never a true meeting-of-minds here. Neither party completely understood what to expect from the other.

 

The "spec" the buyer gave the builder called out 8.2uF and 27uF polypropylene capacitors, and that's exactly what he got.  If he wanted more expensive caps, he should have said so, rather than expecting something for nothing (Sonicaps at Dayton prices).  It's a bit like telling a car dealer you want a new car that has to have four tires and a four cylinder engine, getting a quote of $18,000 and then complaining when you ended up with a Kai Forte and not a BMW 330i.

 

Based on the cost of the parts, the buyers expectations were completely unrealistic.  Any disappointment is a direct result of those expectations.

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Prices for goods have definitely gone up... I own a business (not audio related) and I can tell you that consumer index pricing is tied to (US) politics, but also tied to a "global market" as we have been reminded all to frequent during this pandemic. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, MCM_Fan said:

 

The "spec" the buyer gave the builder called out 8.2uF and 27uF polypropylene capacitors, and that's exactly what he got.  If he wanted more expensive caps, he should have said so, rather than expecting something for nothing (Sonicaps at Dayton prices).  It's a bit like telling a car dealer you want a new car that has to have four tires and a four cylinder engine, getting a quote of $18,000 and then complaining when you ended up with a Kai Forte and not a BMW 330i.

 

Based on the cost of the parts, the buyers expectations were completely unrealistic.  Any disappointment is a direct result of those expectations.

 

That's where I am going to disagree.... That builder clearly (up until this thread started) claimed to only use Sonicaps.

 

I sent him the drawing and he said, "I will have to order some parts to build these, but it looks like the ones I need are all in stock so should be able to get them in a few days. We can build a pair of these for $300 plus $15 shipping to you. If you want to order, I can send an invoice to your email and we can get the parts ordered as soon as the invoice is paid and get these out to you fairly quickly." 

 

He never mentioned a deviation from his supplier only that he was need to order parts. 

 

It's more like taking your car to a mechanic that has a big sign that says "We Only Use Genuine BMW parts" to get your brake changed but unknown to you, they decided to use off brand parts. 

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6 minutes ago, bribassguy said:

That's where I am going to disagree.... That builder clearly (up until this thread started) claimed to only use Sonicaps.

Based on the original question, the Answer is NO,  You didn't get screwed according to ALL the answers you got.

 

Crites got a great reputation on this Forum over several years and it's pretty crappy on your part to try and tear it down publicly here. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

All responses here are from HONEST people, not "fanboys." No one who knows Michael and his Late Dad, Bob, has EVER had a problem dealing with them. They are, perhaps, slow to update their web site, but who isn't?

 

So stop beating the dead horse, enjoy your brand new networks with good Poly Caps, and quit wasting our frikkin' TIME!

 

Over and out.

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23 minutes ago, bribassguy said:

 

That's where I am going to disagree.... That builder clearly (up until this thread started) claimed to only use Sonicaps.

 

In THEIR crossovers.  You did not order one of THEIR crossovers.

 

23 minutes ago, bribassguy said:

I sent him the drawing and he said, "I will have to order some parts to build these, but it looks like the ones I need are all in stock so should be able to get them in a few days. We can build a pair of these for $300 plus $15 shipping to you. If you want to order, I can send an invoice to your email and we can get the parts ordered as soon as the invoice is paid and get these out to you fairly quickly." 

 

He never mentioned a deviation from his supplier only that he was need to order parts.

 

And you never mentioned any specific brand - just 8.2uF and 27uF polypropylene capacitors, and that's exactly what you got.

 

23 minutes ago, bribassguy said:

It's more like taking your car to a mechanic that has a big sign that says "We Only Use Genuine BMW parts" to get your brake changed but unknown to you, they decided to use off brand parts. 

 

And if that mechanic quoted you a total price (parts and labor) that was significantly less than the cost of genuine BMW parts alone, wouldn't you be suspicious?  You should be.

 

In the future, when you want specific parts used in a custom build, you need to specify EXACTLY what you want.  I've built several custom crossovers for others.  When doing so, and quoting a price, I always give them a spreadsheet with 2, or 3, different price points and what parts I recommend at those price points.  I then let them decide how much they want to spend.  That way, we both know exactly what I'm building and exactly what it's going to cost.

 

I also know how much manual labor is involved in building custom crossovers (it's not difficult, but it is time consuming - to do it right).  Knowing that, and the cost of the parts, there is absolutely no way you "got screwed".  If anything, you got a good deal - two very well built, affordable, custom built crossover networks for $300.  If they aren't what you want, take him up on his offer to replace the caps.  The total cost won't be much more than if you'd ordered what you wanted in the first place, and you'll have the piece of mind knowing you have the more expensive Sonicaps.

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49 minutes ago, MCM_Fan said:

 

In THEIR crossovers.  You did not order one of THEIR crossovers.

 

 

And you never mentioned any specific brand - just 8.2uF and 27uF polypropylene capacitors, and that's exactly what you got.

 

 

And if that mechanic quoted you a total price (parts and labor) that was significantly less than the cost of genuine BMW parts alone, wouldn't you be suspicious?  You should be.

 

In the future, when you want specific parts used in a custom build, you need to specify EXACTLY what you want.  I've built several custom crossovers for others.  When doing so, and quoting a price, I always give them a spreadsheet with 2, or 3, different price points and what parts I recommend at those price points.  I then let them decide how much they want to spend.  That way, we both know exactly what I'm building and exactly what it's going to cost.

 

I also know how much manual labor is involved in building custom crossovers (it's not difficult, but it is time consuming - to do it right).  Knowing that, and the cost of the parts, there is absolutely no way you "got screwed".  If anything, you got a good deal - two very well built, affordable, custom built crossover networks for $300.  If they aren't what you want, take him up on his offer to replace the caps.  The total cost won't be much more than if you'd ordered what you wanted in the first place, and you'll have the piece of mind knowing you have the more expensive Sonicaps.

 

Fair enough, I did not spec a brand. Lesson learned. I didn't think that I had to but will do so in the future. 

 

 

 

 

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You did not buy their crossovers. You had them build some to your specs w/o stating what parts you wanted. You f'd up by assuming. Continue to do that and the results will be similar. No getting around that.

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  • bribassguy changed the title to Need Some Input - Did I get Duped?
47 minutes ago, bribassguy said:

Fair enough, I did not spec a brand. Lesson learned. I didn't think that I had to but will do so in the future. 

 

I see you edited your reply to my post before I could respond.  You said this was a case of bait and switch.  That is NOT the case.  Bait and switch would have been if they'd charged you the Sonicap prices for the Dayton caps.  That clearly did not happen.

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Okay so here us the resolution.  Builder has given me two options that I feel like will bring this to a close. I think we both own some of the issue and builder has agreed to make it right. 

 

 

Option 1: Send back the XO and builder will refund my money. 

Option 2:  Send back the units and builder will replace the signal path caps with Sonicaps at his expense to match website description. 
Option 3:  Pay $300 to builder to replace all the caps with Sonic Caps.
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14 minutes ago, bribassguy said:

Okay so here us the resolution.  Builder has given me two options that I feel like will bring this to a close. I think we both own some of the issue and builder has agreed to make it right. 

 

 

Option 1: Send back the XO and builder will refund my money. 

Option 2:  Send back the units and builder will replace the signal path caps with Sonicaps at his expense to match website description. 
Option 3:  Pay $300 to builder to replace all the caps with Sonic Caps.

 

Glad to see a possible compromise in the works.  Too bad there isn't some sort of Option 2.5 between Options 2 and 3 where you both "share the pain".  Option 2 is extremely generous.  You're basically getting $80 worth of caps (plus labor) for free.

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