Jump to content

Center Channel Requirement?????


MoJo63

Recommended Posts

So about a year ago I tried a wireless set up thought it may work because I have a small room 11x12 purchased The Sixes and truth be told that lack the punch and drive even for that small a room.  Going back to wired (wife gonna hate me)  basic set up Onkyo TX-NR5100 receiver connecting to the Heresy IV.  The dilemma should I add a center speaker?  Or is that mostly for TV and movies and if so a nice sound bar could work for TV apps.  Do any of you find a benefit to a center channel speaker for music?  And if so can you suggest a nice one preferably under a grand.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whether multi-channel is worthwhile for music depends on the genre.

 

I listen to classical music and opera.

   

My preferences for recording technologies:

  1. My favorite is modern performances/recordings (last dozen years or so) that were captured and mastered in hi-res (e.g., 24bit/192kHZ) multi-channel, and delivered on a Blu-ray audio/video disc featuring DTS-HD MA 5.0 (or 5.1) surround-sound.   (A few Ultra HD Blu-ray opera recordings are starting to become available.) 
     
  2. My second choice in formats are SACD and Pure Audio Blu-ray that feature surround-sound.  (No video.)

In all cases provenance of the recording is critical – i.e., modern recordings that were captured and mastered as hi-res multi-channel – NOT DSP-generated gimmickry applied to vintage recordings. 

  

IME/IMO, hi-res multi-channel (e.g., Blu-ray’s DTS-HD MA 5.1) is VASTLY superior to stereo for the large-scale classical music that I love. 

 

There are countless modern (last dozen years or so) recordings of classical compositions that were recorded and mastered in modern “hi-res” formats, and delivered on multi-channel Blu-ray or SACD – and IME/IMO these hi-res multi-channel recordings “blow the socks off” stereo (particularly the 40-year-old Redbook CD format).   If you’d like to read about a few examples:  https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/202102-classical-recordings/&do=findComment&comment=2658804

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that identical L, C, R is ideal, so that all 3 speakers across the front have same the same tonal balance, and the center isn't drawing attention to itself.  

 

If you can't accommodate another Heresy IV, then consider an RC-64III.  (I own two.)   

 

I suggest that you contact Cory Harrison at Metropolis Lake Outfitters, LLC. (aka Paducah Home Theater).
metropolislakeoutfitters@gmail.com.   

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, robert_kc said:

I agree that identical L, C, R is ideal, so that all 3 speakers across the front have same the same tonal balance, and the center isn't drawing attention to itself.  

 

If you can't accommodate another Heresy IV, then consider an RC-64III.  (I own two.)   

 

I suggest that you contact Cory Harrison at Metropolis Lake Outfitters, LLC. (aka Paducah Home Theater).
metropolislakeoutfitters@gmail.com.   

Yeah the room would not really accommodate a third Hersey IV I will look into the RC-64111 it's a pricey little booger

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you currently are only using a pair of Heresy’s in stereo, separate them as far as possible, into the corners if possible,  and toe them in enough so that each one fires at the opposite end of your viewing area, or a full 45 degrees if possible. You probably won’t feel the need for a center channel as the “sweet spot” will be as wide as the viewing area and quite stable. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, MoJo63 said:

Yeah the room would not really accommodate a third Hersey IV I will look into the RC-64111 it's a pricey little booger

 

If you can't accommodate another Heresy, you should try to find a used KLF-C7.  They come up reasonably often on the used market (https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=klipsch+KLF-C7)    If you put a titanium tweeter diaphragm in it then it's about the closest sonic match to Heritage for a 2-way horizontal center that I've heard.  (The very similar KV-4 is also a decent match but if the tweeter goes the diaphragms are impossible to find.)  It's not perfect but I think it will be a closer match than any RP center speaker and much less expensive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just noticed that you were asking whether a center is worth it for music.  If you are listing to multichannel content as @robert_kc mentioned above, then I'd say it's definitely worth moving to a multichannel setup with a dedicated center.  If you only listen to stereo content, then it depends on if you like the derived center created by an upmixer in your receiver/processor like Dolby Surround, DTS Neo Music, etc.  Some do a better job than others. I like doing this on some stereo recordings but certainly not all or even the majority.  I would say that a center isn't critical for pure stereo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For music, no you do not need a center channel unless you are doing 5.1 etc. The only exception IMO would be a very wide room. I had my Klipschorns in my basement prior to building my Quarter Pie theater. They were 24 feet apart which just didn't seem to work well for imaging in my space. I added a LaScala in the middle (summed LR signal) and that worked pretty well and got rid of the center hole in the sound. Now that I have them a mere 20 ft. apart in my teaching studio stereo is fine. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, tromprof said:

I added a LaScala in the middle (summed LR signal)

 

@tromprof- How did you get the summed L+R?  I've always wished receivers/processors would have a surround mode that did a simple L+R center and L-R, R-L surrounds like the circuit in this Dope From Hope.


Bridged Center Loudspeaker and Pentaphonic
http://assets.klipsch.com/files/Dope_710706_v11n3.pdf

 

Screenshot 2021-09-10 164603.png

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, MoJo63 said:

Yeah the room would not really accommodate a third Hersey IV I will look into the RC-64111 it's a pricey little booger

Honestly, it seems every few weeks a Heritage owner comes on asking about a center channel because they can't use a comparable speaker...Fwiw, the replies run the gambit between what you are looking at (RC-64) to running a phantom (or no) Center. Good luck. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Honestly, it seems every few weeks a Heritage owner comes on asking about a center channel because they can't use a comparable speaker...Fwiw, the replies run the gambit between what you are looking at (RC-64) to running a phantom (or no) Center. Good luck. 

Every week...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MMurg said:

 

@tromprof- How did you get the summed L+R?  I've always wished receivers/processors would have a surround mode that did a simple L+R center and L-R, R-L surrounds like the circuit in this Dope From Hope.


Bridged Center Loudspeaker and Pentaphonic
http://assets.klipsch.com/files/Dope_710706_v11n3.pdf

 

Screenshot 2021-09-10 164603.png

 

All channel stereo does something similar.  Most receivers have that function.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Honestly, it seems every few weeks a Heritage owner comes on asking about a center channel because they can't use a comparable speaker...Fwiw, the replies run the gambit between what you are looking at (RC-64) to running a phantom (or no) Center. Good luck. 

 

I think Klipsch is missing out on additional Heritage sales by not having a 3-way horizontal center speaker and  a wall-hanging surround speaker for the Heritage line.  The center could have a driver layout similar to the Palladium P-27C in Heritage-style cabinet.  They could even do a Heritage styled version of the P-27S surround.  This seems like a no-brainer to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, wuzzzer said:

 

All channel stereo does something similar.  Most receivers have that function.

 

That's not what mine does.  The "Multi Ch Stereo" mode in mine simply puts the stereo signal into each pair of speakers, kind of like distributed audio or a "party mode" but in the same room.  It's not a matrix decode of any kind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2021 at 1:46 PM, MoJo63 said:

So about a year ago I tried a wireless set up thought it may work because I have a small room 11x12 purchased The Sixes and truth be told that lack the punch and drive even for that small a room.  Going back to wired (wife gonna hate me)  basic set up Onkyo TX-NR5100 receiver connecting to the Heresy IV.  The dilemma should I add a center speaker?  Or is that mostly for TV and movies and if so a nice sound bar could work for TV apps.  Do any of you find a benefit to a center channel speaker for music?  And if so can you suggest a nice one preferably under a grand.  

If you only listen to 2 channel a center may not be needed but I LOVE multichannel music such as DVD-A, SACDs, and Bluray/DVD concerts and a center channel is a must, imo.

4 hours ago, MMurg said:

 

If you can't accommodate another Heresy, you should try to find a used KLF-C7.  

I agree and/or possibly RC-7 along with the RC-64. Ymmv.

2 hours ago, MMurg said:

 

@tromprof- How did you get the summed L+R?  I've always wished receivers/processors would have a surround mode that did a simple L+R center and L-R, R-L surrounds like the circuit in this Dope From Hope.

 

Fwiw, I don't listen to 2 channel sources but for multichannel conversion I like Dolby PLIIz on my Denon 4811ci and the newer Atmos surround mixer is even supposed to be better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MMurg said:

 

I think Klipsch is missing out on additional Heritage sales by not having a 3-way horizontal center speaker and  a wall-hanging surround speaker for the Heritage line.  The center could have a driver layout similar to the Palladium P-27C in Heritage-style cabinet.  They could even do a Heritage styled version of the P-27S surround.  This seems like a no-brainer to me.

The problem for most folks is center channel size and there isn't a market for even larger center channels than the ones available today by Klipsch. Heck, it'd have to be at least the size/volume of the Heresy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

The problem for most folks is center channel size and there isn't a market for even larger center channels than the ones available today by Klipsch. Heck, it'd have to be at least the size/volume of the Heresy.

 

It's usually the center speaker height that is the biggest issue.  A Heritage horizontal center with a driver layout like a P-27C could be kept under 10 inches high.  It should be 3-way like the P-27C so that the crossover point between the midrange horn and the woofer is suitably low, in the same range as the rest of the Heritage line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, MMurg said:

 

@tromprof- How did you get the summed L+R?  I've always wished receivers/processors would have a surround mode that did a simple L+R center and L-R, R-L surrounds like the circuit in this Dope From Hope.


Bridged Center Loudspeaker and Pentaphonic
http://assets.klipsch.com/files/Dope_710706_v11n3.pdf

 

Screenshot 2021-09-10 164603.png

I believe DTS Neo 6 does that for the three front channels, but perhaps synthesizes the rears a bit differently. I sometimes prefer listening to it instead of listening in stereo. It doesn’t seem to mess with the signal much, just anchors the center and adds a bit of spaciousness. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...