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Center Channel Requirement?????


MoJo63

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3 hours ago, Kevin S said:

I believe DTS Neo 6 does that for the three front channels, but perhaps synthesizes the rears a bit differently. I sometimes prefer listening to it instead of listening in stereo. It doesn’t seem to mess with the signal much, just anchors the center and adds a bit of spaciousness. 

 

Yes, I'm well aware of the Dolby/DTS upmixing modes and do use them occasionally.  I was lamenting that a surround mode just like the 5-channel "bud box" in the Dope From Hope (simple L & R addition and subtraction) doesn't exist. 

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20 hours ago, MMurg said:

 

@tromprof- How did you get the summed L+R?  I've always wished receivers/processors would have a surround mode that did a simple L+R center and L-R, R-L surrounds like the circuit in this Dope From Hope.


Bridged Center Loudspeaker and Pentaphonic
http://assets.klipsch.com/files/Dope_710706_v11n3.pdf

 

Screenshot 2021-09-10 164603.png

I would very much like to see three channel receivers or preamps become a common offering. Stereo for music and the centre engaged for TV and movies. I know several people who have dropped 5.1 and are now using 3.1 set ups. Unless you are an absolute movie buff HT can be overkill (IMO).

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22 hours ago, MMurg said:

 

@tromprof- How did you get the summed L+R?  I've always wished receivers/processors would have a surround mode that did a simple L+R center and L-R, R-L surrounds like the circuit in this Dope From Hope.


Bridged Center Loudspeaker and Pentaphonic
http://assets.klipsch.com/files/Dope_710706_v11n3.pdf

 

 

 

I used a Rolls mixer, I believe this one.

https://www.parts-express.com/Rolls-HA43-PRO-4-Ch-Stereo-Headphone-Mixer-Amplifier-245-040

LR in, mono out.

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7 hours ago, YK Thom said:

I would very much like to see three channel receivers or preamps become a common offering. Stereo for music and the centre engaged for TV and movies. I know several people who have dropped 5.1 and are now using 3.1 set ups. Unless you are an absolute movie buff HT can be overkill (IMO).

 

There are countless modern recordings (i.e., performed/recorded in the last dozen years or so) of classical compositions that were recorded and mastered in modern “hi-res” multi-channel formats, and delivered on multi-channel Blu-ray or SACD.  

 

For classical music, 3.1, 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, and 5.2 hi-fi configurations are relevant.   (For classical music, the rear channels contain mostly audience applause, so eliminating them has no material impact on the music.  IOW, 3.1 works well for classical music.)

 

OTOH, if you listen only to vintage recordings, YMMV.   If you only listen to music that was recorded several decades ago, you are stuck with decades-old technology, and stereo (vs. multi-channel) might be as good as it gets.

 

IMO, equating music with stereo (i.e., 2 channel vs. multi-channel) represents being stuck in a decades-old perspective of technology (e.g., the 40-year-old-CD format, or the older-still LP).

 

As I said in an earlier post, IME/IMO hi-res multi-channel (e.g., Blu-ray’s DTS-HD MA 5.1) is superior to stereo for the large-scale classical music that I love.

 

Depending on music genre, YMMV …

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1 hour ago, robert_kc said:

 

There are countless modern recordings (i.e., performed/recorded in the last dozen years or so) of classical compositions that were recorded and mastered in modern “hi-res” multi-channel formats, and delivered on multi-channel Blu-ray or SACD.  

 

For classical music, 3.1, 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, and 5.2 hi-fi configurations are relevant.   (For classical music, the rear channels contain mostly audience applause, so eliminating them has no material impact on the music.  IOW, 3.1 works well for classical music.)

 

OTOH, if you listen only to vintage recordings, YMMV.   If you only listen to music that was recorded several decades ago, you are stuck with decades-old technology, and stereo (vs. multi-channel) might be as good as it gets.

 

IMO, equating music with stereo (i.e., 2 channel vs. multi-channel) represents being stuck in a decades-old perspective of technology (e.g., the 40-year-old-CD format, or the older-still LP).

 

As I said in an earlier post, IME/IMO hi-res multi-channel (e.g., Blu-ray’s DTS-HD MA 5.1) is superior to stereo for the large-scale classical music that I love.

 

Depending on music genre, YMMV …

Good points all, which kind of reinforces my wish for dedicated three channel units.

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8 minutes ago, YK Thom said:

Good points all, which kind of reinforces my wish for dedicated three channel units.

Hum. I have never tried it but wonder if you don't hook up surrounds but used the multichannel processor in a 5.1 unit you could accomplish the same goal. It would seem that with 2 channel music you could possibly get that to work into 3 speakers up front.

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15 hours ago, Zen Traveler said:

Hum. I have never tried it but wonder if you don't hook up surrounds but used the multichannel processor in a 5.1 unit you could accomplish the same goal. It would seem that with 2 channel music you could possibly get that to work into 3 speakers up front.

That will work for TV just fine. I'm hoping to move away from current AVR to different unit. A three channel would press all the buttons with a theoretically better sound in two channel stereo.

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18 hours ago, YK Thom said:

That will work for TV just fine. I'm hoping to move away from current AVR to different unit. A three channel would press all the buttons with a theoretically better sound in two channel stereo.

If that were true don't you think they would've marketed it by now or considerably earlier? My guess what you suggest is being done now with AVRs. Again, That's my take. {Edit Note: What Preamp/AVR are those 2 channel youtubers on here listening on}

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On 9/12/2021 at 8:00 PM, Zen Traveler said:

If that were true don't you think they would've marketed it by now or considerably earlier? My guess what you suggest is being done now with AVRs. Again, That's my take. {Edit Note: What Preamp/AVR are those 2 channel youtubers on here listening on}

 

On 9/12/2021 at 8:00 PM, Zen Traveler said:

If that were true don't you think they would've marketed it by now or considerably earlier? My guess what you suggest is being done now with AVRs. Again, That's my take. {Edit Note: What Preamp/AVR are those 2 channel youtubers on here listening on}

People with AVRs are doing this - myself included. Still doesn't diminish my dream of a three channel unit. I think a market is there, especially with those who prefer two channel audio but would also like a centre for watching TV and movies.

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18 hours ago, YK Thom said:

 

People with AVRs are doing this - myself included. Still doesn't diminish my dream of a three channel unit. I think a market is there, especially with those who prefer two channel audio but would also like a centre for watching TV and movies.

 

Several manufacturers offer 2.1 HDMI receivers (e.g., Marantz, Onkyo, Denon), so maybe some manufacturer will see the market potential of a 3.1 HDMI receiver.   I think that a 3.1 HDMI receiver would make sense for a lot of people – however, I’m not sure how difficult it would be to downmix 5.1 to 3.1 in the receiver.  

 

In the meantime, I’m aware of a few options.

 

A quick google search found several 3-channel power amps.   (I have no experience with any of these.)

  • Anthem MCA 325 Gen 2
  • Emotiva XPA-3 Gen3, XPA-DR3
  • McIntosh MC303
  • Parasound A31
  • Et al.

 

The Oppo UDP-205, BDP-105, and BDP-95 that I own have variable output (i.e., volume button on remote control) and 7.1 analog audio outputs.   One of my systems is a 3.1 system that I use for multi-channel classical recordings (i.e., SACD and Blu-ray).    IME, there is little content in the rear channels of classical music (mostly audience applause), so not much is lost by forgoing the rear channels.   (Hollywood movies would be a different case.)   On occasion I directly drive power amps from my Oppo units.  (The Oppo’s set-up allows you to adjust the relative volume level of each channel.)   The only downside to directly driving power amps from an Oppo is the lack of tone controls.   (BTW, the newer Oppos have a parameter that can activate DTS Neo:6 pseudo-surround sound for stereo recordings, but I don’t use it.)

 

Or, you could use a multi-channel pre-processor to drive a 3-channel power amp.  I have no experience with multi-channel pre-processors.   I don’t know if a pre-pro can mix a 5.1 audio track down to 3.1, so that the rear channel content isn’t lost.   If not, you could just forgo the rear content.

 

Reportedly you could drive a 3-channel amp from pre-amp (i.e., line-level) audio outputs from some AVRs.   I have no experience with this configuration.

 

FWIW, two of my hi-fi systems are 4.1, and one system is 4.2.   I combine the Oppo’s surround-left and surround-right analog RCA connections via a Y-cable.   (Oppo confirmed that this use of a Y-cable is OK.)   One vintage stereo tube amp plays the main L&R channels.  A second vintage stereo tube amp plays the center-channel and single rear-channel.  The powered subwoofer(s) connect to the Oppo, and Oppo’s bass management (e.g., configurable crossover) is employed.    I’m very satisfied with this configuration.  Multi-channel classical recordings sound great, and Hollywood movies sound great.  (And, of course these systems can play CDs in addition to Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, SACD, and hi-res downloads.) 

 

I imagine that many AK’ers own more than one amp and pair of speakers, and therefore could experiment with 3.0, 3.1, 4.0 or 4.1 surround-sound fairly easily.    This would require SACDs or Blu-rays featuring 5.1, and a multi-channel pre-processor or a universal player with multi-channel analog outputs such as one of numerous Oppo models, or the currently manufactured Reavon UBR-X200 (which appears to be based on the Oppo UDP-205, but different DACs, and fewer connections).  If someone wants to play multi-channel SACDs and DVDs, but doesn’t care about Blu-ray, an Oppo DV-980H (SACD/CD/DVD) can be bought used fairly cheap.  For Blu-ray, a newer Oppo model would be needed.  For Ultra HD Blu-ray, the Oppo UDP-205 (I own 2), and Reavon UBR-X200 are two universal players that I know about that feature 7.1 analog audio outputs and remote volume control.

 

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20 hours ago, YK Thom said:
On 9/12/2021 at 9:00 PM, Zen Traveler said:

My guess what you suggest is being done now with AVRs. Again, That's my take. {Edit Note: What Preamp/AVR are those 2 channel youtubers on here listening on}

People with AVRs are doing this

Fwiw, that was what I was getting at! That said, good luck with your search but I don't think what you suggest has a market given it can be done with current AVRs at a reasonable price point.

 

2 hours ago, robert_kc said:

A quick google search found several 3-channel power amps.   (I have no experience with any of these.)

I think he is looking for a pre-amp (section) that coverts 2 channel to 3 channels up front.

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