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ASC Tube Traps - Listening Room Optimization


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I’m starting this Topic for those interested in Acoustics and Room Optimization.

 

Interest in the ASC Tube Trap were expressed in another thread and how they work as a Bass Trap so I will try to gather information and post in this thread as I get time and hopefully keep it updated for those interested.

 

Art Noxon the inventor of the Tube Trap has written extensively on Acoustics in White Papers, AES Papers, Magazine Articles, Newsletters and has also made Videos to share his knowledge extending many decades and I highly suggest others to research them.

 

I would like to cover some of the following all of which can be found in Art Noxon’s writings:

 

Bass Traps: especially as it pertains to the transient nature of music and our listening environment.

 

MATT TEST: invented by ASC (Acoustic Sciences Corporation)

 

QSF (Quick Sound Field) Concept: which was born in the recording and mastering fields and I am experimenting with adapting it for my Listening Room as a logical extension of this powerful technique of controlling the listening environment.

 

Acoustic Shadowing: another powerful tool which can be used in our listening rooms.

 

 

I’ll start by posting some pictures of a room (converted garage) I’m experimenting with based on ASC Tube Traps and Concepts/Techniques I’ve learned from them and my implementation of the QSF Concept for a dedicated home listening room.

 

miketn🙂

 

 

Front Wall:  ASC Tube Traps in corners, RPG Skyline Duffusers, and ASC SoundPanel and ASC SoundPlank on custom ceiling grid/frame.

 

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For those who would like to read sooner than I might get some things posted you can find many of Art Noxon’s papers and articles which can be found here on the ASC website. Scroll to the bottom and look under (Media & News) and (Acoustic FAQ) 

 

I highly encourage reading and subscribing to the (Newsletter: Acoustic Tips) which can be found toward the bottom of the home page as well.

 

https://www.acousticsciences.com/

Note: they appear to be updating the website and the White Papers aren’t currently available.

 

 

 

miketn 🙂

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1 hour ago, mikebse2a3 said:

I highly encourage reading and subscribing to the (Newsletter: Acoustic Tips)

Mike, I will give these a chance and have subscribed.  As I have the attention span of a gold fish, I am curious if these are long and drawn out or quick tips that can be read in a couple of minutes. 

 

Room acoustics and treatments is something I would like to tackle this winter.  I have been watching and trying to learn as much as possible.  Some of the theories seem basic, but some seem to get over my head.  At times I wish I could pay someone to come in my room and tell be what I need to build and where to put it for optimal use.  

 

Thanks for taking the time to continue this discussion.  

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2 hours ago, The Dude said:
4 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

I highly encourage reading and subscribing to the (Newsletter: Acoustic Tips)

Mike, I will give these a chance and have subscribed.  As I have the attention span of a gold fish, I am curious if these are long and drawn out or quick tips that can be read in a couple of minutes. 

 

Room acoustics and treatments is something I would like to tackle this winter.  I have been watching and trying to learn as much as possible.  Some of the theories seem basic, but some seem to get over my head.  At times I wish I could pay someone to come in my room and tell be what I need to build and where to put it for optimal use.  

 

Thanks for taking the time to continue this discussion. 

 

Your very welcome and I believe you will find them very friendly to read and they are friendly to the less technical minded as well.

 

Don’t miss the “Archives Link” and once there the “Load More Tab” for a good size library of them.

 

595E5C19-1CF8-4A44-8F07-ED1ECB2A7502.thumb.jpeg.5eace052420a80e7782d6207df0f53c5.jpeg

 

C2E8365C-0BBA-41C9-9F00-2B67623C7BC2.thumb.jpeg.bd5b95cd4f88a3cbfbcac4cb1bed636c.jpeg

 

 

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So, Mike, you're trying to create a "QSF sound field" in your listening room around the listening position?

 

Chris

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2 hours ago, Chris A said:

So, Mike, you're trying to create a "QSF sound field" in your listening room around the listening position?

 

Chris

 

 

Chris yes I am and when I started researching the QSF Concept it seemed very logical to me that it could be applied/adapted for the listening position in my dedicated listening room and the results have been very impressive which has made me very curious to explore the concept farther with different configurations/combinations and variations to the concept to find what best meets my requirements/preferences for this system/room.

 

The ability to create a controlled sound field for the listening position while also taking advantage of acoustic shadowing technique to minimize other room issues is a powerful tool IMHO.

 

 

 

miketn

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2 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

...when I started researching the QSF Concept it seemed very logical to me that it could be applied/adapted for the listening position in my dedicated listening room and the results have been very impressive...

 

Can you describe this in a bit more detail?  What did you hear, vis-à-vis with-and-without the bass traps, etc. surrounding the listening position?

 

Chris

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On 9/13/2021 at 1:58 PM, mikebse2a3 said:

For those who would like to read sooner than I might get some things posted you can find many of Art Noxon’s papers and articles which can be found here on the ASC website. Scroll to the bottom and look under (Media & News) and (Acoustic FAQ) 

 

I highly encourage reading and subscribing to the (Newsletter: Acoustic Tips) which can be found toward the bottom of the home page as well.

 

https://www.acousticsciences.com/

Note: they appear to be updating the website and the White Papers aren’t currently available.

 

 

 

miketn 🙂

Your room swings both ways now.

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10 hours ago, parlophone1 said:

Mike thank you for posting this.

How are you judging the results?

Is some measurement involved in the process? For example, I am thinking of REW that many here use already.

 

 

11 hours ago, Chris A said:

 

Can you describe this in a bit more detail?  What did you hear, vis-à-vis with-and-without the bass traps, etc. surrounding the listening position?

 

Chris

 

Chris and parlophone1 …  will respond later to your questions have to run for now. 🙂

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14 hours ago, Chris A said:

 

Can you describe this in a bit more detail?  What did you hear, vis-à-vis with-and-without the bass traps, etc. surrounding the listening position?

 

Chris

 

The (6) 13” x 3’  IsoThermal TubeTraps and (2) 16” x 43” original TubeTraps when installed into the corners reduced a muddy character imposed on many recordings especially below 300Hz which resulted in a much improved perception of clarity and articulation and the low end felt smoother and more complete. Another perception which I have experienced in the past is the perception of improvement in the higher frequencies when the region below ~300Hz is improved.

 

I have also used DSP compensation using both llR filters and FIR filters (DSPeaker Dual Anti-Mode Dual Core) to smooth the response after the installation of the Corner Traps. What is interesting and as expected was if only using the DSPeaker for compensation without the Corner Traps I was able to gain some improvement in smoothness but it really didn’t offer anywhere near the improvements in clarity and articulation that the Corner Traps provided.

 

As far as with and without the QSF setup when without it the colorations from the room would affect areas of clarity, cause tonal changes and imaging was of course affected as well. Don’t misunderstand me though the overall sound was pretty good with pretty low fatigue factor but I knew it could be improved in significant ways that would bring me much closer to the musical performance. With the QSF I have been able to minimize the colorations that my room was introducing as already mentioned and create a controlled listening space. There is really no way I can think of that would fully describe the experience but it would only take a few minutes for you to set in my listening chair and I believe you would immediately declare it as a significant and much more realistic musical performance versus without the QSF setup. The QSF simply allows a much more accurate and realistic experience of the recordings reproduction.

 

I will post again with examples of different QSF setups and attempt to describe the perceived differences between them.

 

miketn

 

 

 

Just for fun..😄

System’s measurement (no smoothing applied) below 500hz taken last week. Note Again: this type of measurement can’t reveal the articulation improvements that I have gained from the Tube Traps installation. Left and Right + Sub with Mic at Listener Location

 

 

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5 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

 

Yes it does my friend… wish you could listen to the Museum La Scala AL5 with the KPT-1502-HLS prototype here in this space.

The sound OK …👍😄

When we go visit the Rigmatoni's we will.

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1 hour ago, mikebse2a3 said:

I will post again with examples of different QSF setups and attempt to describe the perceived differences between them.

 

I've heard the differences below 300 Hz using bass traps (which I do use and understand their effects), so I've got a very good idea of those changes below 300 Hz.

 

So the remaining piece is the "filling up the Haas integral with in-room reflections"--at higher frequencies than ~500-600 Hz.  These can be very early reflections before 5 ms (and after 0.7 ms), or they can be later reflections.  This is the part that I'm curious about, and what the difference in sound in-room is.  And identifying whether the reflections added to the direct arrivals are earlier arrivals or later ones. 

 

Chris

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