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K-402 replacement


Hilltoppa
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Does anyone know of a very good sounding replacement speaker that is equivalent to a K-402 to go on a KPT-904 setup.  I have the knock-off K-510 and is sounds great but does not have the visceral feel I am looking for.  I am runnning the KPT-904 in parallel with a Lascala/KP-480 setup and a JBL-4722 setup.  The system sounds fantastic but I think the K-510 is a little underpowered for the group and doesn't balance in quite right. Thats why I want a larger horn for the KPT-904.

 

I have added L-Pads to all and done a rudimentary balancing along with crossover upgrades, speaker wire upgrades and etc.  Still have a long way to go with the tweaking but I want to get the framework sounding right before I continue.

 

Any and all thoughts are appreciated. 

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You may be chasing the wrong thing. The K-510 sounds quite good.

 

Personally, I would not do any upgrades unless you have access to some simple measurement hardware/software. Unless you have a proven (passive) crossover design (for the specific components, drivers, horns), I would bi-amp and use a DSP crossover. You can get your feet wet with an inexpensive Behringer DCX 2496 and see if you make any progress. If you like it, then you can later upgrade.

 

Importantly, this setting up  is done by measurement and not "by ear". The "by ear" part does not come until the end and is limited to small adjustments. 

 

Regarding your original question (a replacement for the K-402), probably not, but your question is vague. Please tell us about exactly what you are trying to achieve (pieces, parts, expectations etc).

 

Good luck,

-Tom

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Thanks for the fast response.

 

I am in the process of setting up my sound system. I kow there are many aspects and componets that need to be addressed and it is an iterative game where you make adjustments then reset the system to see how it sounds. I've pretty much set my amp/pre to my Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum 2 integrated and have done a lot of tube switching to get the sound I want. I may add a line of seperte amp/pre later so I can do better sound shaping. I've got a decent turntable in a Denon DLP-60L, my CD/DAC is a Cambridge Audio Azure 851C and I'm running a Pioneer RT-707 for my tapes.. Each step changing to these components really improved the sound. I know its not the best equipment out there but it is the best I'm going to run with for a while.

 

On the speaker side I have gone through a lot of variations. I've had Heresy, Forte and Cornwalls both with and without the Crites upgrades. I have tried Vandersteens, Polk SDA SRS, Vienna Acoustics and a few other brands that I found wanting. They were all good speakers with great soud but it was not as full as i wanted - even at higher levels.  I wound up with a Lascala setup that sounded really good with the squawker, tweeter and crossovers upgraded. What was lacking was the sound that makes you feel like you are part of the music. About 6 months ago I got  KPT-904 and JBL 4722 speakers and have got them cleaned up, fixed up and setup in my listening area.  I started doing A/B/C comparisons between them and found they all brought something to the table that was a little different from each other.  I like the sound running all three sets at the same time - it makes me feel like I am in the middle of the music - especially with live music records and tapes.  The Lascala had a very crisp mid and high and the JBL had a different sounding but very natural sound.  The K-510 had a little bit of a tinny sound that detracted from the overall sound a little bit. I tried a couple JBL horns on the KPT-904  but they were worse.  What I am trying to find is a horn that compares to the K-402. I have never heard a K-402 but it is referenced as one of the best. 

 

You note that just listening is not the best way to set up your system and I agree with you.  I'll be doing the REL analysis once I get the system where I want it to be with just listening. I look at the REL analysis as a tweak and my ears as that main feedback. I really don't know if that is corrrect or not as I'm making this all up as I go along (and really enjoying the process).  I figure I am looking for the 90% solution as my listining area is far from ideal - it is in my shop. I have one bay set up as my listening / electronics workbench area. I'll be happy if I hit the 90% mark with the setup. 

 

I have searched extensively online but can't find any K-402's available and havent found any good suggestions for a replacement. I know the drivers are just as important as the horns. I am using B&C DE-75-8 drivers on the K-510. My understanding is that these are pretty good.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

 

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If you are able to obtain a pair of 402's (and obtain an active) that would give you some interesting options.

 

Little doubt in me that you'll like their sound...BUT, you can then move them to your LaScala's and see how they sound on there too.  (bypass passive and move active over turning LaScala into 2-way speaker)

 

In my opinion, hearing the K402 atop a LaScala verses a stock Lascala would be similar to listening to a full orchestra on one side verses a toy speaker on the other.  (perhaps a bit dramatic but it WILL be a dramatic difference and likely one that you'll be glad you made)

 

THEN, you get to go back and buy even MORE 402's!!

 

(see how we enable around here??)

 

:emotion-21:

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Have you tried the JBL 2374 horn on top of the KPT-904 cabinets. They aren't very expensive without the driver, and would make a good match across all the tops. Of course, they do use a 1.5 inch throat driver.

10979-large_default.jpg

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19 minutes ago, Marvel said:

Have you tried the JBL 2374 horn on top of the KPT-904 cabinets. They aren't very expensive without the driver, and would make a good match across all the tops. Of course, they do use a 1 inch throat driver.

10979-large_default.jpg

Yup. This is the top end of my speakers.  Love em. That's through the passive network even.... 

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1085640-REG/jbl_4722_hf_high_frequency.html

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I'm with Tom on this. Having a bunch of stuff thrown together, even though each may sound good, does not mean they will, all at the same time. What is your plan to integrate all of them and how do you make them play well together?

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I 100% agree with Tom, to get your current set-up to sound it's best, you really need to get a decent DSP crossover (I use a Xilica, XP-4080)

and dial everything in with 4 channels of amplification.

 

I am not sure what and how close your "knock-off K-510"s are to the real thing but the Klipsch K-510 is a very good horn.

I was running K-510 with my Faital HF-200 CD on top of my refurbished Peavey FH-1s and was getting very nice results.

Now I currently run K-402s with K-691s.

Yes the big 402s are better, but a cannot imagine most people would not be very happy with K-510s!

 

 

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18 minutes ago, HPower said:

Yes the big 402s are better, but a cannot imagine most people would not be very happy with K-510s!

 

I agree with this and believe (understand) the difference to be on verses off axis.

 

If you are staring down the throat, my understanding is they're going to sound very very similar.  If you are sitting off to the side, THAT is when you'll notice a difference.

 

I once heard them off axis when at a big shindig at Klipsch in Indy.  They had one of each setup in the banquet room (one of the Pilgrimages).  They went back/forth.  I didn't get up to listen to them straight on since I already had a pair.  I wanted to leave room for others.

 

What that unwittingly did for me though was let me hear both of them OFF axis and as I recall, the 402 was more 'muted' because the 510 did NOT control the sound as well so the sound wrapped around the sides of the 510 to radiate to the side or behind the speaker.  The 402 controlled the sound much better, so there was less splashing of the sound, so you heard less of it off to the side.

 

Was the first time I ever actually experienced that situation.

 

I understand that Roy engineered them both to 'sound the same' (excepting the reality that the larger horn will control the coverage better). 

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If the OP is interested, he is about 4-5 hours from where I live. If you have never heard K-402s before, then you are welcome to come and listen to some K-402s (on top of Jubilee bass bins). Perhaps this could be part of another trip to this part of the country. They really do sound terrific. It may even change your mind about the price of a K-402 or going whole hog and actually getting a pair of Jubilees.

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The JBL 2384 horn is only $125...

 

I know the k-402 is probably (ok, we're on the Klipsch forums) the better horn, but he already has the JBL horns on the other cabinets. They will match up the mids and up... all the way around. It's a logical step in my book.

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On 9/23/2021 at 4:34 PM, Hilltoppa said:

 the K-510 is a little underpowered

  you can double up , with 2   k 510 horn/drivers  per speaker ,  in the Pro industry  , more is better  , or try adding a Tweeter for a 3 way for more sparkle , the 904 series do have 2 way and 3 way versions -

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For the OP to give his current speaker system a chance, I feel he needs to find something like a XP-4080, a UMIK-1, and a free copy of REW (Room EQ Wizzard).

Then let the above hardware software do their magic... then let your ears get involved.

 

After listening to things properly dialled in, you can then decide if your current horns and drivers are giving you what you are after.

 

Meanwhile Coytee has given you a great invitation to hear his "properly dialled in system".

I am sure a few hours in the car will make you a believer!

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