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Heresy 4's and midrange bump


Moosh Bronsun
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I can't offer up any real equalizer suggestions, but I've heard good things about some Technics and Marantz models, I'm sure there are plenty of others. I've never been any good at setting equalizers, but if you can get it right, it should be a good fix for your problem.

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@Moosh Bronsun  I'm having the same issues with a pair of Klipsch CF-3's (older model) and a pair of ads L1230's that are now located on the short wall upstairs.  I've been researching the same things and decided against an older EQ as I don't want to have to deal with older slides, older capacitors, potentially lower S/N ratio, etc., so I ordered this Bellari EQ570 from Amazon earlier today.  I've looked at the Schiit Loki's, as well, but by the time it gets to my door shipped and with tax, it's close to $200.  For $130 shipped with tax, I decided to try this out and have that window of opportunity to return it if it doesn't work out.  The range I'm seeing it on RTA is from about 2 to 4kHz in my room so hopefully this will tame it some.  If it works, I can hide the red EQ>  ha

 

https://www.amazon.com/Bellari-Audio-EQ570-Equalizer/dp/B07PPQ3XWM/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1NGY1PVB7FRMG&dchild=1&keywords=eq570&qid=1633028447&sprefix=eq57%2Caps%2C390&sr=8-2

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44 minutes ago, avguytx said:

@Moosh Bronsun  I'm having the same issues with a pair of Klipsch CF-3's (older model) and a pair of ads L1230's that are now located on the short wall upstairs.  I've been researching the same things and decided against an older EQ as I don't want to have to deal with older slides, older capacitors, potentially lower S/N ratio, etc., so I ordered this Bellari EQ570 from Amazon earlier today.  I've looked at the Schiit Loki's, as well, but by the time it gets to my door shipped and with tax, it's close to $200.  For $130 shipped with tax, I decided to try this out and have that window of opportunity to return it if it doesn't work out.  The range I'm seeing it on RTA is from about 2 to 4kHz in my room so hopefully this will tame it some.  If it works, I can hide the red EQ>  ha

 

https://www.amazon.com/Bellari-Audio-EQ570-Equalizer/dp/B07PPQ3XWM/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1NGY1PVB7FRMG&dchild=1&keywords=eq570&qid=1633028447&sprefix=eq57%2Caps%2C390&sr=8-2

Same. Looked at the Loki but both the Bellari and Schiit have a pole at 2k. SBAF had graphs where they knobbed different frequencies using the paranetric curves agsint each other but none seem to hit the spot. Let me know how you make out.

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17 minutes ago, Moosh Bronsun said:

Same. Looked at the Loki but both the Bellari and Schiit have a pole at 2k. SBAF had graphs where they knobbed different frequencies using the paranetric curves agsint each other but none seem to hit the spot. Let me know how you make out.

 

SBAF?  Have a link to that?

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3 hours ago, avguytx said:

 

SBAF?  Have a link to that?

Super Best Audio Friends. I've been trying to find it myself. They ran pink or white noise through it and , while watching the waveform adjusted the dials. After the usual boost and cut, they started using the knobs against each other to make tighter, more pinpoint frequency selections. Its killing me I cannot find it.

 

EDIT:  https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-loki-eq-measurements.5153/

 

As I said, all I'm looking for is a 2-3db cut at about 1500hz. Just a nudge for the dozen or so records that need it.

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9 hours ago, RandyH said:

so fully broken in , there is no reason for a Midrange hump -there has not been any reported cases of such issues on a Heresy IV on the  klipsch forum - 

Could be an artifact of the room he's in and or placement / sitting position that's causing it either perceived or otherwise or it could just be some bad recordings since he does seem to indicate its only a small amount of material that acts this way. Too hard to tell I've set up dozens of systems in a wide range of environments and rooms can have dramatic impacts on the sound. 

 

My custom KPT-335's are rated 102db at 1 watt and bless their little hearts but if I put a bad recording on they'll slap me right in the face with it. 

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On 9/24/2021 at 2:50 PM, Moosh Bronsun said:

I'm hesitant to go down that rabbit hole but yeah, I'm sure I can make that happen.

 

DSP is amazing in what it can do, but it's just as good at screwing things up until you go pretty deep into that rabbit hole. : )

 

In the mean time, I'm convinced that the Heresy IV didn't see the light of day until the Chief and crew felt they had the best result possible for its expected application. Still, you can almost always improve things due to your specific acoustic setting*, tastes, recordings, hearing ability, etc., but I think you're wise to initially take a gradual approach with something like the broad tone control offered by the EQ570. I've never used one of those things, but I trust the company that made it and expect that it will work well.

 

The manual generally specs the EQ offered and I can tell that the designer knew what he was doing.

 

I just ordered one through Amazon since I can return it. It's due to me Monday and I'll post full measurements on it by Tuesday. In the mean time, the guy that's probably measured the Heresy IV more than anyone else outside of Klipsch posted a "spinorama" of it a few days ago. This form of analysis is the brain-child of Floyd Toole and and requires a long trip down the rabbit hole to fully appreciate, but you can just concentrate on the "estimated in-room response" plot to see that a broad (low-Q) reduction around 2kHz, such as the EQ570 provides, may be just what the doctor ordered.

 

God bless you and your precious family - Langston

 

* In live music performance there is absolutely nothing as effective in making an instrument sound good as mic selection and placement. IMO, placement is the most important of the two. There's no EQ or effects or mix (relative level) adjustment in the world that can do what placing the mic in the right spot will do. The mirror image of this is loudspeaker placement within your room. Do that first when your wife isn't home so you can move the furniture as needed. Then when she gets home, catch her before she sees the room and tell her that you have something terrible to confess. When you're both seated, tell her you cheated on her - but very quickly (before you die) correct it and tell her the only thing that really happened was some stuff got moved around in the room with the loudspeakers, "and isn't that way better?!" : )

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On 9/30/2021 at 2:59 PM, Moosh Bronsun said:

Same. Looked at the Loki but both the Bellari and Schiit have a pole at 2k. SBAF had graphs where they knobbed different frequencies using the paranetric curves agsint each other but none seem to hit the spot. Let me know how you make out.

 

So far so good. Had better listening experience last night. Minimal fiddling. 

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Something much less expensive than a new DSP that (might) help and be simple to implement is a Zobel network.  It is NOT truly a part of the crossover, although that's the location they are usually found.  A Zobel is the last in line before the driver, and is connected across the + and - of the driver (essentially the voice coil).  You do not have to solder into the crossover network.  It can be temporarily installed across the terminals -- a resistor and capacitor are soldered in series (there are on-line calculators that are simple to use), and this series RC (resistor/capacitor) network is then connected in parallel with the driver (meaning the remaining free end of the cap and resistor).  There is no high voltage present, but of course this would be done with the amplifier off.  Only one solder connected needs to be made, but it would be very easy to use a simple, small AWG wire nut to connect one end of the cap to one end of the resistor.

 

It might help in this case.

 

Are schematics of the Heresy IV dividing networks released?  I'm curious if there is already a zobel in place.

 

Calculating the values of R and C is as simple as this: https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/ImpedanceEqualizationCircuit/

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For what it's worth, it's not unheard of that some loudspeakers have some degree of midrange peak in their response.  In fact, it can be a characteristic related more to an intentional design objective than one that's associated with an anomaly, a problem, or some other negative attribute.  I can of course can only speak for myself and my own values and objectives in terms of what I like to hear, and I can say that I've tended to not gravitate toward speakers that possess an overly flat, dynamically restricted, or otherwise disconnected response.

 

I suspect I would argue that the perception of a bump, peak, or mild sharpness in the midrange was one of the most attractive aspects of the sonic signature of Klipsch speakers; and was what, when I first heard them (a pair of Heresies), got me just really hooked.  I had heard some extremely expensive loudspeaker systems that just left me sort of....well...kind of bored.  

 

For me, music has a kind of organic life or quality that, when reproduced truthfully and realistically (let me qualify - I should say what TO ME - is truthful and/or realistic) will most definitely have peaks and valleys (topography, if you will).  Speakers that were designed specifically to navigate or travel such musical territory rather than fill in the voids of the valleys or flatten or chop off the sharp peaks and tops of the mountains, which is what Klipsch speakers do (again FOR ME), are what make listening to music an adventure that puts me on the edge my seat in anticipation of what's going to happen next!

 

Another consideration here, though, is the recording itself.  I find that the nature of Klipsch (as well as my full-range Lowther drivers -- and others like them) is one that lays bare the recording, whether of poor or very high quality - which, once again, and in and of itself, boils down to nothing more than personal preference.

 

I guess what I'm struggling to say here, and I apologize for the way a go off on crazy tangents (I feel bad for my old students when I was teaching -- though they did seem to enjoy it for the most part), is that in trying to ameliorate, iron out, repair, fix, change, modify, etc., etc., etc., we can sometimes end up, as another forum member astutely observed recently (sorry, I can't remember who he or she was right now) taking a step backwards rather than ahead; and, in solving one perceived problem, create a host of others that may be worse than where we started.  And I am most definitely speaking from experience!  I have made so many audio mistakes and blunders over these past decades, but I also most definitely made every effort to learn from them.

 

OP:  I don't know if these Heresy IVs are your first pair of Klipsch, but, just possibly, perhaps leave them as they are for a bit.  With some time, maybe that peakiness you mention will soften on its own the longer you have the speakers.  Or not!  It's of course totally your right and prerogative to change anything as you wish, and no-one else's to tell you not to!  Regardless, you have a great pair of speakers! :) 

 

 

 

 

 

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No I am able to understand quite readily your post and would understand how your students were able to enjoy.

 

Also, seems reasonable to have in the midrange valleys, peaks and the in-between.

The topography is not a flat terrain typically. A desert plain can even have the occasional dune.

And, if the saying that we live in the midrange is true, then would expect what you say to leave no doubt.

Thanks...

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