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Klipsch Epic CF-3 v1 crossovers and rattling dust cap. Almost done


avguytx
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While I had a little time yesterday, I pulled the crossover from one cabinet just to check out what caps and resistors are there.  There's one resistor that looks a little "charred" compared to the others.  Or, maybe that's some sort of glue on the bottom side and/or maybe heat cause that black discoloration.  I'm most likely going to replace the resistors with Mills 12w or Mundorf 10w versions but still deciding on the capacitors.  I went more out with the CF-3's I had 7 years ago and did have good results with them but not really sure if I'm going to jump into these like before.  The caps look to be in good shape and I would imagine measure close to spec.  I could always lift one leg of the cap and measure them  and for sure on the 25uf and 40uf electrolytic caps.  

 

I know for sure I'm going to replace the binding posts as they are kind of tarnished.  Nothing crazy, though.  My point of diminishing returns anymore is a lot earlier than it used to be.  lol

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shiva said:

I am also curious if that is charred in the pic. Does it have any burnt smell to it?  

 

Honestly, I didn't sniff it.  I guess I should have.    Looking at the PCB makes it seem like it's been pretty warm.

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Haven't gotten around to checking the other side yet.  Hell, I don't know what direction to go here, really.  Part of me says just replace the resistors with Mills and call it good and leave the capacitors alone.  It's not like it's that hard to ever go back and change the caps.  10 Mills 12W resistors are $55 at Parts Connexion, changing the 25uf & 40uf electrolytic caps along with new terminals from Parts Express, starts getting close to $200 after tax and shipping.  Not sure my point of diminishing returns range cares about that.  lol

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just a suggestion, ERSE makes some very good capacitors, the electrolytics are very good 6% tolerance & they are what crites uses in their complete crossovers & kits.  they will ship first class mail for a few bucks if the order is under 16 oz too. they sell many other parts as well & crites uses them for most their other parts.  bob also said he prefers their poly caps over other budget caps like dayton etc, i have used them in many speakers including klipsch & they sound great & fit on the board much better than larger caps like sonicaps etc. 

 

& fyi:  crites says there is no sound improvement in resistors, he uses the cement cast for all his crossovers.  im not saying thats 100% true since some others do use the mills types, just passing along what bob has said.   

 

https://www.erseaudio.com/

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@EpicKlipschFan  I agree with you on the Erse goods.  I've used them in the past and their electrolytics for various projects.  Mundorf also makes some reasonable priced electrolytics but they didn't have 25 and 40uf.  

 

Years ago when my hearing was great and tinnitus had yet to set in, I could literally hear some differences in Mills against others "in certain areas" and they had been a go to.  But, with current hearing, that diminishing point of return saves me money anymore. Haha. Kind of a blessing and a curse, I guess. I wish I could hear over 11kHz better again.  

 

Not to mention they have metalized polyester caps which seem to be so popular with some die hard fans here.  ;)

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On 10/1/2021 at 9:36 PM, avguytx said:

@EpicKlipschFan  I agree with you on the Erse goods.  I've used them in the past and their electrolytics for various projects.  Mundorf also makes some reasonable priced electrolytics but they didn't have 25 and 40uf.  

 

Years ago when my hearing was great and tinnitus had yet to set in, I could literally hear some differences in Mills against others "in certain areas" and they had been a go to.  But, with current hearing, that diminishing point of return saves me money anymore. Haha. Kind of a blessing and a curse, I guess. I wish I could hear over 11kHz better again.  

 

Not to mention they have metalized polyester caps which seem to be so popular with some die hard fans here.  ;)

 

i saw they offer mylar caps too, but notice how they mention they are "a great choice for lower freq applications" & " a higher quality alternative to non polar" electrolytics... 

also i noticed they mention the film they use is higher purity dupont film compared to competitors lesser quality chinese film...    ;) 

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21 hours ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

i saw they offer mylar caps too, but notice how they mention they are "a great choice for lower freq applications" & " a higher quality alternative to non polar" electrolytics... 

also i noticed they mention the film they use is higher purity dupont film compared to competitors lesser quality chinese film...    ;) 

 

The caps and resistors could be changed out for a very minimal amount.  There's a choice of either the Metalized polyester, which seem to be the "preferred" for Klipsch Heritage (not sure about Epic) or  or Metalized polypropylene caps.  Not a  crazy difference in price.  Resistor wise, the bad side is that they don't make a 1-ohm resistor and the 2-ohm are backordered till December sometime.  Go figure.  ha  Other similar resistors would work in place, though.

 

Edit:  But they do have the 5-ohm resistors which is all I really need if in fact that one has seen some heat.

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"preferred"... :rolleyes:   polypropylene in general is better quality than mylar in many/most of the reputable crossover builders opinions... without getting into the whole "authorized" conundrum.  

 

& looking at those epic capacitors,  they sure do look like polypropylene & not the traditional yellow/blue mylar found in many other klipsch of this era.  are those originals in the epics?  

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11 minutes ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

"preferred"... :rolleyes:   polypropylene in general is better quality than mylar in many/most of the reputable crossover builders opinions... without getting into the whole "authorized" conundrum.  

 

& looking at those epic capacitors,  they sure do look like polypropylene & not the traditional yellow/blue mylar found in many other klipsch of this era.  are those originals in the epics?  

 

They are untouched in them and I for sure haven't done anything to them yet.  I thought it odd, too, as the caps in my original CF-3's (version 3) were the yellow "polyester" caps that were slightly oval similar to what was in most other models.

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2 hours ago, avguytx said:

 

They are untouched in them and I for sure haven't done anything to them yet.  I thought it odd, too, as the caps in my original CF-3's (version 3) were the yellow "polyester" caps that were slightly oval similar to what was in most other models.

 

hmmm, wonder if they changed capacitor types on the later versions?  do you know what version yours are?  i used to own V2 cf4's but never thought to pull the x-overs to look. 

 

if they are indeed propylene vs the more common mylar type, i wonder why that is?? anyone able to confirm this by looking at their cf3 or 4 xovers?   

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28 minutes ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

hmmm, wonder if they changed capacitor types on the later versions?  do you know what version yours are?  i used to own V2 cf4's but never thought to pull the x-overs to look. 

 

if they are indeed propylene vs the more common mylar type, i wonder why that is?? anyone able to confirm this by looking at their cf3 or 4 xovers?   

The pictures above in thread are of version 1 crossovers.  I have a side view pic of the version 3's I had some years back which shows the yellow caps.  Could have been a transitional thing.  Electrolytics look to be the same.

 

 

photo 7 smaller (2017_10_06 01_49_14 UTC).jpg

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  • 1 month later...

I recently did a partial rebuild of my CF-4 crossovers. I ran into the same budget constraints that you talked about. All I ended up doing was the two large caps in the woofer circuit with cheapish Solen film caps, and replacing the resistor in series with the tweeter with a mundorf classic. That added up to about $175 if I remember correctly. I also used some low-value Auricaps to get the capacitance back to spec since I couldn't get the Solens in the exact values I needed. I would definitely replace that resistor, and leave some air-gap between it and the board.

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17 hours ago, Maxwell_E said:

I recently did a partial rebuild of my CF-4 crossovers. I ran into the same budget constraints that you talked about. All I ended up doing was the two large caps in the woofer circuit with cheapish Solen film caps, and replacing the resistor in series with the tweeter with a mundorf classic. That added up to about $175 if I remember correctly. I also used some low-value Auricaps to get the capacitance back to spec since I couldn't get the Solens in the exact values I needed. I would definitely replace that resistor, and leave some air-gap between it and the board.

 

the caps in the woofer circuit are electrolytic & most say dont really have much if any effect on the sound.  you changed those with film caps?  

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anyone able to check their cf4 crossovers for what caps they have?  im really curious why the top pic shows the black poly type caps vs the traditional yellow/blue mylar caps used in most other klipsch of this era.  if those are original, why the difference in capacitors in the early epics vs the other common types used in most other models of this era??  

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  • avguytx changed the title to Klipsch Epic CF-3 v1 crossovers and rattling dust cap. Almost done

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