Jump to content

My first La Scalas


pcbiz

Recommended Posts

On 3/14/2022 at 5:55 AM, pcbiz said:


We have a winner! Old bad wires are what my experiments are all about. The old wiring and connectors are wimpy by comparison. I'm not getting high sonic improvements. It's not like changing a crossover. They are small and simple improvements that are very impressive to me. This lets me know I'm moving in the right direction. Lots of little things become one big thing. This is exactly why the new Klipsch lineup uses higher quality interior wiring and connectors.

 

Thank you. I am a winner! I agree with you about that.

 

My key words were ( ), I change my wires and connectors to better ones too, but don’t find or believe the high sonic improvements come from that that some declare do, because there’s only so much that can do, unless you replaced old (bad) wires, connectors, or their connections are (bad) in anyway, (loose), or (corroded) (causing problems).

 

Meaning having a (defect), not just from old age, because copper wire and connectors are good for many years, especially protected inside a La Scala dog house. Just because they’re old doesn’t mean they’re bad.

 

Klipsch has always used adequate size wire and connectors. Simply putting on bigger wire and connectors on speakers doesn’t cause you to get an improvement if they were already adequate and not (defective).

 

Klipsch uses bigger and better wire and connectors now because the market does and it’s expected and if it causes improvements I doubt differences can be heard by ears, even yours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, soundbound said:

 

Thank you. I am a winner! I agree with you about that.

 

My key words were ( ), I change my wires and connectors to better ones too, but don’t find or believe the high sonic improvements come from that that some declare do, because there’s only so much that can do, unless you replaced old (bad) wires, connectors, or their connections are (bad) in anyway, (loose), or (corroded) (causing problems).

 

Meaning having a (defect), not just from old age, because copper wire and connectors are good for many years, especially protected inside a La Scala dog house. Just because they’re old doesn’t mean they’re bad.

 

Klipsch has always used adequate size wire and connectors. Simply putting on bigger wire and connectors on speakers doesn’t cause you to get an improvement if they were already adequate and not (defective).

 

Klipsch uses bigger and better wire and connectors now because the market does and it’s expected and if it causes improvements I doubt differences can be heard by ears, even yours.

 

I didn't know anything about the audio market or this debate when I did my experiments. I have no reason to change my mind at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, pcbiz said:

 

I didn't know anything about the audio market or this debate when I did my experiments. I have no reason to change my mind at this point.

 

I and others were just trying to educate you a little about wires and connectors, but if you believe you hear it then that’s all that matters to you, so keep on keeping on.

 

I do recommend you watch some YouTube videos on how to properly crimp connectors onto wires, especially since you’re giving advice about them and posting photos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I received my ALK-450 crossovers and my Eliptrac 400 kit a week apart. The last of the ALK crossovers, and the last of the Eliptrac kits.

 

So far I've installed the ALK-450s for comparison with my Volte VTK 400 crossovers.

 

My first observation was that the ALKs gave the tweeters a bit more push, which was pleasant. However, the Volte crossovers are better at distinguishing between each instrument, the vocals are more present and engaging, and the bass is well defined and balanced. Drums and percussion are more detailed as well. 

 

The Volte's are also twice the price of the ALK-450s.

 

The next experiment will be with my Eliptrac 400 kit. I initially thought about cutting the new horns into my La Scala cabinets. However, a better option would be to create a separate cabinet for the Eliptrac horn, and a separate cabinet or holder for Beyma CP-25 Tweeters. The drivers would also be a nice fit for hot rodded vintage Klipschorns.... maybe later.

 

yLOEXy4O_Kt-xGemg00TjoLal0bw7HTe-TEsONv975m6g5QRBiGftq-6WewTtkXuRnLInJXHyPYhya-IUIs0iHOzI32i2QCVrSvX6al9liqFk_PwGr6uZbuqjqHUlPMsIuti3nXhHyWquTj1tA

 

C_OfoEqrJDbZn7556ROnuDtZGvLrTsj-9qB5_1Uis6vIHJ142g34FsloM2OMcHHHficflHAxwtkJXEAwdk5rWCHxnUhTc56whMxr2uoEny1Sz9bbud5djhtFQfk0PMv8vyVNDXz9TcDz-6crzA

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, pcbiz said:

However, a better option would be to create a separate cabinet for the Eliptrac horn, and a separate cabinet or holder for Beyma CP-25 Tweeters.

The Beyma CP-25 , fits very well on the L/R  sides of the Elliptrac 400

xr15i36rdadm.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

...I can almost make out Al’s secret woofer filter from the picture of those ALK-450s

 

@pcbiz, what tap setting are you using for the squawker, -6db?

 

You may get a little more “distinguishing” if you let the squawker talk a little louder? Or not.

 

Cheers to your journey!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, geoff. said:

...I can almost make out Al’s secret woofer filter from the picture of those ALK-450s

 

@pcbiz, what tap setting are you using for the squawker, -6db?

 

You may get a little more “distinguishing” if you let the squawker talk a little louder? Or not.

 

Cheers to your journey!

Hmmm.... I'll try that. To be fair, I adjusted the Volte crossover levels to taste. We shall see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/14/2022 at 8:05 AM, soundbound said:

 

No one bashed anyone on this thread for decisions to use certain wires, cables, or connectors. We doubted the declared amount of sonic improvements from the new wires and connectors changes.

 

I change my wires and connectors to better ones too, but don’t find or believe the high sonic improvements come from that that some declare do, because there’s only so much that can do, unless you replaced old bad wires, connectors, or their connections are bad in anyway, loose, or corroded causing problems.

 

If you come on a discussion forum making claims, there may be some who doubt them and that’s okay and the one making the claims needs to be okay with that too, or can post more proof of their claims.

 

Mr. Paul W. Klipsch had a big yellow button for others claims he doubted and I’d guess willing to discuss them and his own claims.

I rewired my speakers (between the passive 6KHz crossover and the mids and tweeter drivers) with Neotech UP-OCC solid core, monocrystal copper. If you have to laugh, laugh, but that wire is a big upgrade. I realize there's a tendency on this forum to mock people who buy audiophile cable, and that is a pity (not talking about you here, just in general). Of course Klipsch speakers will work with lamp cord. They will work with just about any wire you will throw at them. But the context in which those heritage speakers are used may vary greatly. A system with 1970s LaScala and a vintage receiver isn't the same context as a pair of LaScala AL5 used with, say, a high end SET amplifier or a class A Nelson Pass design. They have one thing in common, they are both super cool and sound superb to their respective owners. But that's about where the comparison stops. in the first system, it may seem to make little sense to upgrade the cables. In the second one, it would make little sense NOT to use something, at least, made for audio - and if the user wants to spend a fortune on it, so be it. And then there's everyone in-between those two situations.

I'm a sucker for audio cable. I've tried many, at various prices. I'm poor, so it never costs as much as a small bike. The cable I use throughout my system now is made in China, is multiple separated solid core wires, silver plated, teflon insulated. They make interconnects out of it, speaker cable, power cables. I have an actively bi-amped system and there's a massive amount of wires, all by the same maker. I'v tried many brands (or brandless) before and this is the very best I've owned so far. All in all I must have around 500USD invested in the current cable loom. It may sound like a lot, but it's actually a very small amount for such fantastic wire. But yeah if it was made by Nordost in the USA they would charge you a fortune for it.

 I'm not gonna go into a fight with anyone here, but for me cables are just another element of the system. They definitely add a color; they can be "zingy", they can be bright, they can be dull. They can be transparent or they can be thick and dark. The wire I use now is very transparent, a tiny tiny bit bright, and lets the qualities of the recordings and of the electronics shine through.

What I'm trying to saying is, you can't try a "fancy" cable just once, not hear a difference, and then decide cables are a rip-off. And, worse, you can't make fun of something you haven't experienced yourself. Context is everything. Live and let live. It's a free world, and never anyone was FORCED to spend money on "fancy" cable. But if you wanna do it, do it.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Rolox said:

I rewired my speakers (between the passive 6KHz crossover and the mids and tweeter drivers) with Neotech UP-OCC solid core, monocrystal copper. If you have to laugh, laugh, but that wire is a big upgrade. I realize there's a tendency on this forum to mock people who buy audiophile cable, and that is a pity (not talking about you here, just in general). Of course Klipsch speakers will work with lamp cord. They will work with just about any wire you will throw at them. But the context in which those heritage speakers are used may vary greatly. A system with 1970s LaScala and a vintage receiver isn't the same context as a pair of LaScala AL5 used with, say, a high end SET amplifier or a class A Nelson Pass design. They have one thing in common, they are both super cool and sound superb to their respective owners. But that's about where the comparison stops. in the first system, it may seem to make little sense to upgrade the cables. In the second one, it would make little sense NOT to use something, at least, made for audio - and if the user wants to spend a fortune on it, so be it. And then there's everyone in-between those two situations.

I'm a sucker for audio cable. I've tried many, at various prices. I'm poor, so it never costs as much as a small bike. The cable I use throughout my system now is made in China, is multiple separated solid core wires, silver plated, teflon insulated. They make interconnects out of it, speaker cable, power cables. I have an actively bi-amped system and there's a massive amount of wires, all by the same maker. I'v tried many brands (or brandless) before and this is the very best I've owned so far. All in all I must have around 500USD invested in the current cable loom. It may sound like a lot, but it's actually a very small amount for such fantastic wire. But yeah if it was made by Nordost in the USA they would charge you a fortune for it.

 I'm not gonna go into a fight with anyone here, but for me cables are just another element of the system. They definitely add a color; they can be "zingy", they can be bright, they can be dull. They can be transparent or they can be thick and dark. The wire I use now is very transparent, a tiny tiny bit bright, and lets the qualities of the recordings and of the electronics shine through.

What I'm trying to saying is, you can't try a "fancy" cable just once, not hear a difference, and then decide cables are a rip-off. And, worse, you can't make fun of something you haven't experienced yourself. Context is everything. Live and let live. It's a free world, and never anyone was FORCED to spend money on "fancy" cable. But if you wanna do it, do it.

 

Well said!

 

I just got the GR Research power cable; $287 for five feet. It sounds deep, robust and dynamic, which is exactly how it looks. Kinda funny. So far, the GR Research cable is just a cut above the $90 cables I bought from a local electrical engineer, which are really great as well. Per Gary's advice, I'll run his cable for about 100 hours to hear its full potential.

 

If you could post a link to your Chinese high end cables, that would be very helpful.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rolling wires can be an easy, fun way to get a change in the system. 

 

Internal speaker wires have pretty much same effect as the external run.

 

I've experimented some with solid core silver plated teflon insulation, now I'm leaning towards the vintage type:  tinned stranded cotton insulation.

 

Lots of interesting wire here at reasonable price  https://www.apexjr.com/wire.html

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried changing the midrange settings for the ALK-450, but I put the Volte crossovers back in. They're just right. I'm sure I'll experiment with the ALK-450s again and/or use them for another project.

 

I also threw a new amp into the mix. A local engineer built this for about $700 in parts and labor. I already had the KT-150s and the rectifier tube from a guitar amp. He had already started when I realized I wanted mono blocks.... so this is how amp accumulation starts. My MP-301 is now used for headphones.

 

gO9b5CrX-NxyD8ZII9ml7o7FH9mN-XaG30Ix5rmi2DT7xKYxGDGM9BqN3fygElqeHMoFE69ng3stT0DDrhtLYunX5_EFqg2-61YitiH8Eh0GgiskLkyIihmyTxTtBx4Nw0ljwlyYAMNqlhGlGQ

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

These are the beater La Scalas I bought almost a year ago. It's been quite a journey. These speakers are literally musical instruments.

 

I paid the owner $600 by Zelle about three hours after the ad appeared on Facebook. The next day when I picked them up, the owner told me he had several calls and messages saying to charge more or to offer him more cash to break our $600 deal. Fortunately, he firmly believes that a deal is a deal. I feel the exact same way. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/594850825290319/

 

No photo description available.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, deang said:

Just curious, what settings do you use on that CSW 450. 

The last time I used them, the black wire was on 9, and the red was is on -0. I'm lost without the instructions/numbers... they're around here somewhere.  I tried a number of settings, but those are the very last.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, deang said:

Put the red wire on -2, and the black wire on 6. This will be closer to the stock Klipsch setting.
 

Right now, it probably sounds like there’s a sock stuffed in the midrange. 

 

Done. I'll install them tomorrow to see how they sound.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, deang said:

Put the red wire on -2, and the black wire on 6. This will be closer to the stock Klipsch setting.
 

Right now, it probably sounds like there’s a sock stuffed in the midrange.

I made the switch. The ALK CSW-450s are back in. They add a bit more bass than the Volti crossovers, and definitely sound better with your settings.

The Voltis, however, gives me better instrument separation, highs, and a more forward/live sound. They are, of course, double the cost of the CSW-450s.

 

I'm going to put the Voltis back in for now, but will try the ALKs again when my KT150s get here; I needed two more. I'm currently living in an EL34 world.

 

HR3Do0nnjD7VFXYBw_HYDQKaHkCIOh-bmvsPcUI0QnOujJKgU4V_XTf7M3RQ8CDTlhfWInOy6kY3fj6VSs4WqmReFIxXVVY4-5luA_O8W3imqVxv8xkpZ7yFDzMMuvjaKK-KgdBmrreD9CtZIThczYAgZW3t5LfustHRu7rX5F1Z9QAa4-6KX89dCg


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...