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K402 newby setup


tromprof
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On 11/6/2021 at 11:25 AM, tromprof said:

Well, my wife told me to leave the 402s alone and not paint them.

She likes the sound and doesn’t mind black. The damaged pair are in the basement so she doesn’t care about looks down there, and the pristine  replacement pair are on top of the Klipschorns in our teaching studio and she thinks black makes them less omnipresent.

A truly understanding and indulgent person!

 

I’ve got a pair of 402 horns, and they have an undeniable presence, especially since they’re wider than the La Scala IIs they’re sitting on.  However, I found that by covering the empty bolt holes, they somehow appear less sinister.  Is it because they then become simply shapes, rather than objects or devices?  I don’t know, but it does cause a positive change in my mood.

 

Some other Forum members have noticed this same effect on their 402s as well.  Some have used plastic plugs normally used to attach automotive trim panels, while others, including me, have just applied squares of black sticky tape, like ductape or gaffer tape, to the back sides of the horn flanges.  Either method works.

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On 10/29/2021 at 11:55 AM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Saving up the for Axi 2050 driver.

On 10/29/2021 at 12:25 PM, Schu said:

I have those in my 'cart' right now... just have to click 'BUY' 😛

 

I am curious though, the Radian Beryllium are actually 100 bucks cheaper... but the design is different.

 

 

I am sure you guys have both seen that PE has these drivers on sale right now.

 

https://www.parts-express.com/Celestion-Axi2050-AxiPerodic-2-Wide-Bandwidth-Compression-Driver-4-Bolt-294-2142

 

I would love to try a pair on my 402s, but that sale price just barely covers the Great White North exchange. ☹️

 

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7 hours ago, HPower said:

 

I am sure you guys have both seen that PE has these drivers on sale right now.

 

https://www.parts-express.com/Celestion-Axi2050-AxiPerodic-2-Wide-Bandwidth-Compression-Driver-4-Bolt-294-2142

 

I would love to try a pair on my 402s, but that sale price just barely covers the Great White North exchange. ☹️

 

That's their standard price.

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23 hours ago, Islander said:

 

I’ve got a pair of 402 horns, and they have an undeniable presence, especially since they’re wider than the La Scala IIs they’re sitting on.  However, I found that by covering the empty bolt holes, they somehow appear less sinister.  Is it because they then become simply shapes, rather than objects or devices?  I don’t know, but it does cause a positive change in my mood.

 

Some other Forum members have noticed this same effect on their 402s as well.  Some have used plastic plugs normally used to attach automotive trim panels, while others, including me, have just applied squares of black sticky tape, like ductape or gaffer tape, to the back sides of the horn flanges.  Either method works.

 

I have never heard anyone mention this before.  Were you ever able to measure any difference with the holes plugged?

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22 hours ago, HPower said:

 

I am sure you guys have both seen that PE has these drivers on sale right now.

 

https://www.parts-express.com/Celestion-Axi2050-AxiPerodic-2-Wide-Bandwidth-Compression-Driver-4-Bolt-294-2142

 

I would love to try a pair on my 402s, but that sale price just barely covers the Great White North exchange. ☹️

 

 

I am going to pretend those don't exist and be happy with the K691s for a long while.

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1 hour ago, tromprof said:

 

I am going to pretend those don't exist and be happy with the K691s for a long while.

LOL. Since the K691 is a (modded?) B&C driver rather than the K69, which was a cheap Taiwanese knockoff, it doesn't need as much PEQ "torquing" as was required 14 years ago with the old driver. You should be very happy with the K691.

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On 11/9/2021 at 9:14 AM, tromprof said:

 

I am going to pretend those don't exist and be happy with the K691s for a long while.

 

I am also running the K691s with my 402s and I am not disappointed with how things sound.

I also have a pair of FAITAL PRO HF200 that are currently on the back of my idle K-510s.

On my previous Tigerwood Jub-likes, I ran a different pair of HF200s and they also sounded pretty nice to my ears.

Maybe Claude can comment on the Faitals in comaparison to the K691 / K69s and his previous TADs?

 

As for the Celestion at PE, is it going to be the same exact driver that Roy will be utilizing in the new Jub?

I just skimmed this new, to me video, and Cory at Paducah does talk about Roy adding a phase plug at the front of the driver to give a better dispersion of the high frequencies.

Just like a pair of TADs the Celestion will need to wait for a small lottery win. 💰

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, HPower said:

As for the Celestion at PE, is it going to be the same exact driver that Roy will be utilizing in the new Jub?

I just skimmed this new, to me video, and Cory at Paducah does talk about Roy adding a phase plug at the from

of the driver to give a better dispersion of the high frequencies.

Just like a pair of TADs the Celestion will need to wait for a small lottery win. 💰

 

Yes, the Celestion Axi2050 is the exact one used on the Jubilee and is not modified internally.  Roy created an external phase plug that mates up with the Axi2050 internal phase plug to get the coverage pattern consistent up past 19 kHz.

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I did also get a B&C DE750TN for my center channel between the K402s. The center HP640 with the EV DH1A driver did not sound right with the K402/K-691 for LR, but matches up much better with the B&C. I plan on trying a couple more horns to get it just right but the B&C seems to be the same driver as the K-691.

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1 hour ago, HPower said:

Maybe Claude can comment on the Faitals in comaparison to the K691 / K69s and his previous TADs?

I thought the Faitals, though they are excellent drivers, sounded distorted in comparison to the crystalline sound of the TADs.

 

However, when you consider the retail price of the TADs are over $6,000US/pair vs. maybe $600 for the Faitals, the diminishing returns set in quickly. This also makes the Celestions appear to be a real bargain, since they can cross about an octave lower than the TADs, Faitals, K-691's etc., which is the KEY to all of this and allows better blend of the BASS bin with the K-402. I'm sure the ACTUALITY mirrors these words of theory, observation, measurements, and experiences of both old and new Jube owners!

 

I'm sure that Roy has every right to be proud of his new babies, but as modest as he is, he will only say they sound OK. Meanwhile he can just smile while the rest of us drool onto our Lobster Bibs when we finally hear them! LOL.

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21 hours ago, mark1101 said:

 

I have never heard anyone mention this before.  Were you ever able to measure any difference with the holes plugged?

 

I think it would take some extremely sensitive testing gear to measure any difference from plugging the 402 flange holes, if there is even any aural difference at all.  The only difference that I noticed was emotional.  Something about the look with the visible holes disturbed me slightly, and covering the holes completely fixed that.  The visual size of those big horns does have an effect on people.  I can remember some owners saying things like "the darkness at the middle of the horns was like looking into the Bat-Cave", so they'd like to put some kind of grille cloth over them.

 

Everyone is different, so if minor tweaks like that make you or your partner more comfortable and less distracted from the music, that has to be a good thing.

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20 hours ago, HPower said:

As for the Celestion at PE, is it going to be the same exact driver that Roy will be utilizing in the new Jub?

I just skimmed this new, to me video, and Cory at Paducah does talk about Roy adding a phase plug at the from

of the driver to give a better dispersion of the high frequencies.

Just like a pair of TADs the Celestion will need to wait for a small lottery win. 💰

Or a Credit Card with an adequate Limit!

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7 hours ago, Islander said:

Something about the look with the visible holes disturbed me slightly, and covering the holes completely fixed that.  The visual size of those big horns does have an effect on people.

I followed your suggestions and put in the plastic plugs. Aesthetically they are more pleasing. It is subtle but a just different feel in the room. Or maybe I am imagining it, perception bias and all that. YMMV.

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1 hour ago, babadono said:

I followed your suggestions and put in the plastic plugs. Aesthetically they are more pleasing. It is subtle but a just different feel in the room. Or maybe I am imagining it, perception bias and all that. YMMV.

 

Well someone might like the holes and actually drill more for better sound.  To each there own I guess.  🙂

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On 11/9/2021 at 9:14 AM, tromprof said:

 

I am going to pretend those don't exist and be happy with the K691s for a long while.

 

 

I have an extra TAD driver (not for sale BTW).

 

I've been hankering lately to drive up there ......for lunch (Chesters in Hamilton)

 

If I did that, I'd be happy to bring it with me and let you do a side by side for an hour or so... (perhaps just enough to whet your appetite??)

 

While you're salivating over that, I'd be stuffing my face with Chesters...

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On 11/9/2021 at 12:17 PM, HPower said:

 

I am also running the K691s with my 402s and I am not disappointed with how things sound.

I also have a pair of FAITAL PRO HF200 that are currently on the back of my idle K-510s.

On my previous Tigerwood Jub-likes, I ran a different pair of HF200s and they also sounded pretty nice to my ears.

Maybe Claude can comment on the Faitals in comaparison to the K691 / K69s and his previous TADs?

 

As for the Celestion at PE, is it going to be the same exact driver that Roy will be utilizing in the new Jub?

I just skimmed this new, to me video, and Cory at Paducah does talk about Roy adding a phase plug at the from

of the driver to give a better dispersion of the high frequencies.

Just like a pair of TADs the Celestion will need to wait for a small lottery win. 💰

 

 

 

So based on all this drawn out talk, talk, talk (worse than the Audiophiliac, time wise), where it takes part I and II to give us 10 minutes of information in 40, can we conclude that CORNERS are not a requirement for great sound with these new badass Jubilees????  say this because top managment was impressed without corners in the demo. Am I right?

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

So based on all this drawn out talk, talk, talk (worse than the Audiophiliac, time wise), where it takes part I and II to give us 10 minutes of information in 40, can we conclude that CORNERS are not a requirement for great sound with these new badass Jubilees????  say this because top managment was impressed without corners in the demo. Am I right?

 

I wasn't at the Klipsch sales meeting but my experience at Roy's class would lead me to suspect that the corner requirement is less important with the Heritage Jubilee and here's why.  When Roy set up the mono A/B comparison the first day he had both the Heritage and Underground Jubilee next to each other at the center of the room so they would be close to each other.  So, they were both essentially in 1/4-space instead of the usually corner 1/8-space.  The next day when the Heritage Jubilee were back in the corners for stereo listening I could not discern any change in sound character.  The bass sounded the same to me.  I think this may have been some of the reason why mono A/B comparison showed such a dramatic difference.  I think the Underground Jubilee 's sound may have been more negatively affected by it not being in the corner.  This is obviously not the same as the setup we in Cory's pictures from the sale meeting so I can't say for sure if the results would be the same for that.  Maybe @Paducah Home Theater can comment on the sound from the sales meeting setup.

 

PXL_20211015_183806646_resized.jpg

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