MEH Synergy Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 7 hours ago, jwgorman said: I am happy with them too. I have run N314x and HF146 drivers with Eminence adapters. Bet those sound as solid as they look once dialed in. Nice work my friend. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwgorman Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 17 hours ago, RandyH001 said: bet you the N314X was a blast They do sound very good. I like them crossed over 1k. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwgorman Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 10 hours ago, zobsky said: What crossover frequency did you use with HF146 and did you need to roll in a tweeter ? Thanks I have the HF146 crossed just north of 650 HZ. I don’t think I need a tweeter in my living room. The 1.4” drivers will eventually beam as the frequency goes up of course but I am fine in my chair. Honestly it was super easy to integrate these two drivers. Do you have a project in mind with the HF146? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious_George Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 On 10/23/2021 at 12:23 PM, Curious_George said: The 18 x 10 looks to be an exponential horn. After doing more research, the 18 x 10 has elements of an exponential horn, but it is not a true exponential horn. Current trend is combining 2 or more types of horns for better performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 On 10/23/2021 at 12:23 PM, Curious_George said: I bought a pair of these recently for my eventual LaScala rebuild. I know these horns have come up before in various threads, but I don't recall seeing any frequency response graphs of a K55V (push-pin) on the 18 x 10 horn. Perhaps one is buried in a thread somewhere, but here is a measurement that I made this morning. Two items I wanted to know about the horn was the low-end response, which clearly goes down to 400Hz and how smooth the frequency response was across the midrange band. The 18 x 10 and K55V appear to be a great match. I'm not a horn expert, but the 18 x 10 looks to be an exponential horn. I have not listened to them yet, but will try and patch together at least one channel to see how they sound. It's not an exponential horn. But who cares watchacallit. The Curve is excellent and way better than most I have seen. Enjoy your bargain/excellent horn. Yes, I have a pair too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, Curious_George said: After doing more research, the 18 x 10 has elements of an exponential horn, but it is not a true exponential horn. Current trend is combining 2 or more types of horns for better performance. Don Keele has been doing just that since the 70's. See his papers on the matter. I had lunch with Don about 7 years ago. He said that he could have designed lots of great horns for Klipsch, but Paul would not let him do so. They just didn't get along. He only worked there for a year. He then went on to design horns for JBL and won an Academy Award for the JBL "Elephant Butt Cheeks" horn, about 25 years ago. His "thing" now is Constand Beamwidth Transducers, co-patent holder with JBL. Floyd Toole told me that JBL leaves him alone about his designs using their patents, since he only makes Kits for Parts Express and does not encroach on JBL Pro business. These 2 men are pioneers of sound research, for sure and if you look at modern JBL Horns, they all have some pretty radical shapes and are more "waveguides" than anything to do with classically obsolete Exponential horns. If you go back to 1933, then Voight's TRACTRIX horns are so much better in every way, as are those of the late Jean Michel LeCleach. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 1 hour ago, jwgorman said: I have the HF146 crossed just north of 650 HZ. I don’t think I need a tweeter in my living room. The 1.4” drivers will eventually beam as the frequency goes up of course but I am fine in my chair. Honestly it was super easy to integrate these two drivers. Do you have a project in mind with the HF146? They don't beam as much as a 2" driver. Paul Klipsch used a 1.4" driver on his Jubilee 2-way, with a K-503 that never went to production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 On 10/24/2021 at 5:46 PM, grendel23 said: I am using these horns with BMS 4592ND drivers. I am running active with Quarter Pies and it sounds good. I am getting K-402 horns in a few weeks and will compare. You will discover that my quote "the Bigger the horn, the Better the horn" will ring True! Pun intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 On 10/25/2021 at 1:48 PM, Curious_George said: I am certain the K-402's will sound better, however, the cost difference is quite significant. Now THAT is TWO Understatements!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious_George Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said: But who cares watchacallit. The Curve is excellent and way better than most I have seen. I concur! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious_George Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Don Keele has been doing just that since the 70's. See his papers on the matter. I had lunch with Don about 7 years ago. He said that he could have designed lots of great horns for Klipsch, but Paul would not let him do so. They just didn't get along. He only worked there for a year. He then went on to design horns for JBL and won an Academy Award for the JBL "Elephant Butt Cheeks" horn, about 25 years ago. His "thing" now is Constand Beamwidth Transducers, co-patent holder with JBL. Floyd Toole told me that JBL leaves him alone about his designs using their patents, since he only makes Kits for Parts Express and does not encroach on JBL Pro business. These 2 men are pioneers of sound research, for sure and if you look at modern JBL Horns, they all have some pretty radical shapes and are more "waveguides" than anything to do with classically obsolete Exponential horns. If you go back to 1933, then Voight's TRACTRIX horns are so much better in every way, as are those of the late Jean Michel LeCleach. I find horn and transformer design fascinating. It is amazing what was done before desktop computers were around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Don Keele has been doing just that since the 70's. the Celestion Axi2050 horn - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, Curious_George said: I find horn and transformer design fascinating. It is amazing what was done before desktop computers were around. JBL were using computers since the 60's - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious_George Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said: If you go back to 1933, then Voight's TRACTRIX horns are so much better in every way, as are those of the late Jean Michel LeCleach. I was just reading on older Audio Express journal about Horn Theory and LeCleach is referenced. Audio Express - An Introduction To Horn Theory Part 1 and 2.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 54 minutes ago, Curious_George said: I find horn and transformer design fascinating. It is amazing what was done before desktop computers were around. It's even more amazing about what has been and what is being done with them today, with Free Software!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 54 minutes ago, RandyH001 said: the Celestion Axi2050 horn Looks a lot like the Big Horns I spoke of.......................like Roy Delgado's Fabulous K-402! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwgorman Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 On 10/30/2021 at 11:06 AM, ClaudeJ1 said: They don't beam as much as a 2" driver. Paul Klipsch used a 1.4" driver on his Jubilee 2-way, with a K-503 that never went to production. Yes. That’s true. The 2” drivers beam even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zobsky Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 10 hours ago, jwgorman said: I have the HF146 crossed just north of 650 HZ. I don’t think I need a tweeter in my living room. The 1.4” drivers will eventually beam as the frequency goes up of course but I am fine in my chair. Honestly it was super easy to integrate these two drivers. Do you have a project in mind with the HF146? I was wondering if they work any lower with the faital drivers . Currently, i can get my HF144 (similar) to work as low as 600 / 650 Hz on my belle clones . The problem is somewhat of a response dip between 450 and 600 Hz so I'm on the lookout for suitable alternates without going full 3 way or large format horn/driver (which might be the way to go) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 I spent time with this combination Faital and B&C drivers for Klipschorn. The net was a bit complicated but overall, the sound was quite good and blew away the stock hardware, not even close. The frame was designed to slip into the top of the Klipschorn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwgorman Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 John your project looks awesome. I’d love to hear a pair of big heritage Klipsch with that mid/tweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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