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PRV Audio D2200Ph 2" Driver on 18" x 10" ZXPC Horn


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On 12/28/2021 at 8:21 AM, Alexandre said:

 

Hello ! I own one of those 10"x18" horn by ZXPC and ended up on your topic.

How is that measure of the PRV D2200Ph equalized ? 

Also, do you have any idea of the sensitivity of this combo ?
On the PRV datasheet, the curve isn't pretty looking (on their WGP14-50 "horn") with that almost 6dB dip on the 1khz-2khz band.

My plan would be to use this combo for pro audio so it may be used at full power but I'm a bit afraid that it would not be able to follow my FD371 tweeters (121dB at AES power handling)

Thank you for your time ! :)


The frequency response of the PRV D2200Ph on the 18 x 10 horn is not equalized. It was measured on the horn with no crossover nearfield. 
 

I did not measure the calibrated SPL of the D2200Ph on the horn, however, I’m certain the FD371 will be compatible with an L-pad. 

 

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On 12/31/2021 at 12:52 AM, Curious_George said:


The frequency response of the PRV D2200Ph on the 18 x 10 horn is not equalized. It was measured on the horn with no crossover nearfield. 


 Impressive ! I'll give it a try, it's not that expensive !

Their WG45-50 horn looks pretty close to the ZXPC one, seems like an incredible combo considering the price of both.

Thank you for your informations :)

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On 12/28/2021 at 6:02 AM, Rolox said:

 

 

If anyone could comment... in other words, is it worth changing what I have just for the supposed benefits of a 2inch driver? What do you guys think?

 

thanks a lot 🙂

 

 

 

...I know one thing for sure, you’ll never really know for sure until you try it!

 

And the horizontal coverage is 90 degrees, so I think you can cross that off of the reasons not to now, ...you’re welcome. Lol.

 

I am in a very similar boat as you and I just ordered a set.

 

These are the first generation trachorns with the K-55 sized throat. They will not accept a 2” driver. I am also using Kappa 15Cs (amazing), Dave A’s LMAHL DE-120 tweeters, but A/4500 crossovers, so no mods to the the crossover needed.

 

 

 

 

CFEF11BB-D72E-4665-B944-7AA68D723269.jpeg

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On 1/2/2022 at 10:58 PM, geoff. said:

 

 

 

...I know one thing for sure, you’ll never really know for sure until you try it!

 

And the horizontal coverage is 90 degrees, so I think you can cross that off of the reasons not to now, ...you’re welcome. Lol.

 

I am in a very similar boat as you and I just ordered a set.

 

These are the first generation trachorns with the K-55 sized throat. They will not accept a 2” driver. I am also using Kappa 15Cs (amazing), Dave A’s LMAHL DE-120 tweeters, but A/4500 crossovers, so no mods to the the crossover needed.

 

 

 

 

CFEF11BB-D72E-4665-B944-7AA68D723269.jpeg

Oh i see you're also using FH1 bass bins 😉

 

I'm very very curious to read your impressions on the PRV / ZXPC combo, please let us know asap! ^^thanks

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Well, my drivers I ordered off of eBay on Saturday(!) arrived today. They were estimated to arrive next week at the earliest. The eBay “Global Shipping Program” is nothing short of impressive. Four days, across a border to my doorstep.

 

Each driver even comes with it’s own crushed yellow electrolytic to cut it off at 600hz, it’s stamped right on the cap, which invariably gets stamped in transit.

 

They even came with a cool PRV Audio sticker. I’m thinking I’ll put it on my Honda, beside the fake TURBO sticker, but under the fake K&N sticker, lol.

 

Bonus points for including the bolts though! They were on a list of hardware to get for these, saves me a trip. I probably have some bigger washers kicking around.

 

The only thing that troubles me no end at this point is both drivers read 5.9 ohms.

 

That is a far cry from the 10-ish plus ohms of the K-55s they will be subbing for.

 

 

B8718A91-F063-410B-BFC0-F179700DE720.jpeg

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On 11/2/2021 at 5:11 PM, Curious_George said:

The AA or A crossover should be plug & play. 

 

The impedance plot is very similar between the K55V & D2200Ph. I swapped out my K55V's and inserted the D2200Ph's and wired them up with no crossover changes (I have ALK Universal clones).

 

Hmm. I still don't think these are plug and play with an A or AA.

 

You did an in-network measurement using a crossover that uses a swampingr resistor that flattens the impedance - so it makes sense you wouldn't see much, if any difference.

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Dean, I think he tested it on an A crossover earlier in this thread, on my behalf, but mentioned it would need a 0.3 mH coil on the squawker to account for the extended bandwidth of this driver (up to 9kHz?).  

 

Since I plan on using the A/4500s it was (hopefully) a plug and play.

 

And yes, I did panic and forget about the effect the horn has on driver impedance. Air has resistance! 

 

Also he did mention earlier that they are almost identical in impedance when on the horn at the crossover point.

 

This is going to get real interesting soon enough. 

 

Thanks again for your assistance.

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3 hours ago, Crankysoldermeister said:

Your K-55's are 16 ohm drivers, these are 8 ohm drivers. I'm guessing you probably know this, but the number you measured is the DCR of the voice coil, not the impedance of the driver on the horn, at the crossover point.

Thank you buck ninety five. Wish you would have added that putting an ohm meter on a compression driver tells you almost nothing other than they not shorted out, fried, etc. The impedance of a speaker is a nominal rating, and as far as I know, independent of the resistance of the voice coil. 

 

Did I get that half way right @Crankysoldermeister, please let me know if I misstated anything. 

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9 hours ago, Crankysoldermeister said:

Plots on page 2 are intersting. Sure enough. 16 ohms at 400Hz.


I would dare say the PRV D2200Ph is a better driver than the A55G or G2. They both share a 2” voice which looks identical except for the way it mounts in the compression housing.

 

Since each voice coil is 2” the distortion is very similar as verified by REW measurements. The larger motor may help the distortion on the 2200Ph a bit, but the biggest contribution of the larger motor is the extended frequency response of the 2200Ph. The larger motor helps move the mass at higher frequencies. 
 

The phase plug on the 2200Ph is similar or identical to phase plugs I’ve seen on JBL drivers. 

 

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So everything else arrived this week and I managed to get a makeshift trial going.  

 

I have more than a couple projects going so none of this is permanent.

 

It seems necessary to qualify everything lest one be taken out of context or not in the spirit of things. 

 

At the risk of being mocked, or setting off any of the nose-in-the-air purists on a tirade, I am going to share my experience so far. Here’s hoping I don’t offend too many people’s sensibilities with my fun. Or as another  member recently called it in another post, fuckery. 

 

Anyway...

 

Substituting only the ZXPC 18 x 10” horn and PRV Audio D2200PH driver for the existing K-55-M mounted on an original Trachorn my immediate impression was that it was brighter.

 

This may be because the PRV driver is a little more efficient, it has a throat area 4X larger than that of the one it is replacing, or the horn is shallower. Probably a combination of all three.

 

After a few nights of listening to familiar tracks I can say without a doubt there is more detail in the music. Subtleties in guitar sounds I have never heard in decades of listening to the same CDs. Some vibrato on a Police track my son selected for instance. I asked him if he had ever heard it before and he hadn’t either.

 

Dark Side Of The Moon is another go to for comparisons. EVERY speaker sounds different with this CD. And this time around was no exception. More of the same subtleties, the biggest being the clarity of vocals. If you have ever wondered exactly what was being said, a 2” throat will clear that up.

 

This is not my first experience with a 2” driver. I have Faital Pro HF200s and EVDH1s that I have used on K-510s and a massive Renkus Heinz 22 x 9” horn. They are always game changers, and that is to be expected from bigger everything in the world of horns.

 

Currently these are set up with an A/4500 crossover but I want to try them crossing at 6000 as well. I think the tweeter is getting too much information with this crossover and crossover point, in this set up. I will have to pull my AL-3s out of my LSI Splits and give them a run. My thinking is the 2db cut to the midrange will be noticeable and I get to hear the higher cross to the tweeter, either DE-120s on LMAHLs or DE-10s on STH 100s, probably both.

 

Two other observations, after letting them break in for a couple days, they go extremely loud and stay clean, but oddly the dynamic range seems to have “flattened” a bit at relaxed levels. Lost a little bit of the live sound, more studio? Once again, could be the balance.

 

Also, I have heard no distortion pushing the PRV driver down to the LaScala crossover point. If it is crossing where it is supposed to? I hear no holes in the sound. From where the horns are propped up temporarily I can physically hear the drums come up from the bass bins, bongos especially “pop” and have their own space. 

 

No worries though if they don’t permanently reside on a folded horn bass bin, my “Klipsch Inspired Cornwall Imitations” will give them a good home. This thread nudged me into finally giving them a try. And I am not the least bit disappointed with their potential out of the gate. 

 

Oh, I picked up the pair that includes the 1.5 - 2” adapters for a couple of bucks more, just to add to the list of unused parts lining my shelves. It was almost moot after the difference in shipping costs.

 

...just for the fun of it

 

 

 

 

 

 

C4DA513C-5538-4C9C-A9C6-3C1D9EE95CAA.jpeg

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4 hours ago, geoff. said:

So everything else arrived this week and I managed to get a makeshift trial going.  

 

I have more than a couple projects going so none of this is permanent.

 

It seems necessary to qualify everything lest one be taken out of context or not in the spirit of things. 

 

At the risk of being mocked, or setting off any of the nose-in-the-air purists on a tirade, I am going to share my experience so far. Here’s hoping I don’t offend too many people’s sensibilities with my fun. Or as another  member recently called it in another post, fuckery. 

 

Anyway...

 

Substituting only the ZXPC 18 x 10” horn and PRV Audio D2200PH driver for the existing K-55-M mounted on an original Trachorn my immediate impression was that it was brighter.

 

This may be because the PRV driver is a little more efficient, it has a throat area 4X larger than that of the one it is replacing, or the horn is shallower. Probably a combination of all three.

 

After a few nights of listening to familiar tracks I can say without a doubt there is more detail in the music. Subtleties in guitar sounds I have never heard in decades of listening to the same CDs. Some vibrato on a Police track my son selected for instance. I asked him if he had ever heard it before and he hadn’t either.

 

Dark Side Of The Moon is another go to for comparisons. EVERY speaker sounds different with this CD. And this time around was no exception. More of the same subtleties, the biggest being the clarity of vocals. If you have ever wondered exactly what was being said, a 2” throat will clear that up.

 

This is not my first experience with a 2” driver. I have Faital Pro HF200s and EVDH1s that I have used on K-510s and a massive Renkus Heinz 22 x 9” horn. They are always game changers, and that is to be expected from bigger everything in the world of horns.

 

Currently these are set up with an A/4500 crossover but I want to try them crossing at 6000 as well. I think the tweeter is getting too much information with this crossover and crossover point, in this set up. I will have to pull my AL-3s out of my LSI Splits and give them a run. My thinking is the 2db cut to the midrange will be noticeable and I get to hear the higher cross to the tweeter, either DE-120s on LMAHLs or DE-10s on STH 100s, probably both.

 

Two other observations, after letting them break in for a couple days, they go extremely loud and stay clean, but oddly the dynamic range seems to have “flattened” a bit at relaxed levels. Lost a little bit of the live sound, more studio? Once again, could be the balance.

 

Also, I have heard no distortion pushing the PRV driver down to the LaScala crossover point. If it is crossing where it is supposed to? I hear no holes in the sound. From where the horns are propped up temporarily I can physically hear the drums come up from the bass bins, bongos especially “pop” and have their own space. 

 

No worries though if they don’t permanently reside on a folded horn bass bin, my “Klipsch Inspired Cornwall Imitations” will give them a good home. This thread nudged me into finally giving them a try. And I am not the least bit disappointed with their potential out of the gate. 

 

Oh, I picked up the pair that includes the 1.5 - 2” adapters for a couple of bucks more, just to add to the list of unused parts lining my shelves. It was almost moot after the difference in shipping costs.

 

...just for the fun of it

 

 

 

 

 

 

C4DA513C-5538-4C9C-A9C6-3C1D9EE95CAA.jpeg

Nice!

 

I would try to set them up correctly before making any final assumptions on how they sound, tho.

I've noticed that with my system:

1) changing the midrange tap +& or -1dB has a very audible, almost dramatic effect

2) positioning of the horn in height and depth, in relation to the bass horn, also changes things drastically 

3) using the horn down to 400Hz, you might need to have it attached to a baffle - even if you're using a higher cutoff, you might want some kine of baffle or frame, to stop it from resonating (even plastic does IMO, although it does it differently)

 

I'm still on the verge, myself. My EV SM120 horns and A55G drivers combo sounds quite good. Decisions, decisions...

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6 hours ago, Marvel said:

With a 2 inch vc/diaphragm and a 2 inch throat, it's almost a direct radiator with a horn.

I noticed that too looking at the picture it appears the 2" opening tapers down a bit to the phase plug opening hard to tell by how much 

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10 hours ago, Marvel said:

With a 2 inch vc/diaphragm and a 2 inch throat, it's almost a direct radiator with a horn.

 

Note quite. Below is an image of the phase plug design of the PRV driver (and many compression drivers). I believe the patent for this phase plug design has expired, hence why everyone is using it now. 

 

Anyway, the curved surface of the phas plug rides very close to the driven diaphragm. The concentric slots are what phase align the various frequencies through the output side of the compression driver. 

 

Phase Plug Example.jpg

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10 hours ago, geoff. said:

At the risk of being mocked, or setting off any of the nose-in-the-air purists on a tirade, I am going to share my experience so far. Here’s hoping I don’t offend too many people’s sensibilities with my fun. Or as another  member recently called it in another post, fuckery. 

 

I think it is great you are sharing your experience. Don't be shy or let members on here sway you to do or not do anything in regards to experimenting with your speakers. Yeah, your going to get the "been there, done that", but a lot of times, until I can verify it for myself, I'm going to go forward with my own tinkering and experimentation.

 

Plus, for people who like to and can modify speakers, it is fun. 

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