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Topping PA5 is incredible.


CoryGillmore

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4 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

@wetowne as stated prior, I'm a fan of topping gear. I bought one of these last night out of curiosity straight from China. Ordered custom mogami W2549 XLR to TRS cable to go with.   I'll be powering my JBL 4722N speakers and give it an honest opinion.  I really love the hypex, but I'm aware I don't use hardly any power at 104 dB sensitivity.   If I like it, maybe I'll be shocked and it will stay as my main Amplifier. Otherwise, I'll keep it as a backup /portable amp.   

 

Awesome brother, looking forward to hearing your impressions! 

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1 minute ago, CoryGillmore said:

Awesome brother, looking forward to hearing your impressions! 

I am too. This will be the cheapest amplifier I think I have ever purchased.  Unlike a multi thousand dollar amp, I'll just sit back and listen and enjoy what sound comes out more.  For affordable DACs, topping would be my go to from experience.  

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On 11/30/2021 at 12:15 AM, captainbeefheart said:

Many measurements show normal operating conditions but we know someone somewhere will push it harder than they should and here are where topologies will sound way different even though the specs show the same on a resistive load under normal operating conditions; e.g. <max power.  People clip from transients far more often than you care to think.

I read somewhere that the transient PEAK of scissor cutting paper with close miking can reach 140 db. Hard to believe, but who knows except those who measured it?

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I got a PA5 just out of curiosity. For the last 3 years I've been running a pair of Papworth Audio Technology M100 monoblocks (4x KT90s per side for circa 100-120W) an amplifier designed by Tim de Paravacini which I first heard in the '90s loved, always wanted and I didn't really plan on changing them.

 

A couple of weeks of back and forth listening on everything from Oscar Peterson to Nirvana via Streisand and Public Enemy and I had to get honest with myself. The M100s hit eBay and were gone in two days.

 

The Topping grips the bass of the Forte IIIs tighter, delivering more texture and making them sound slightly deeper. Voices hang in discrete space, of which there suddenly seems to be more about. Some instruments which seemed locked to one speaker on a recording now seem to hover just free of the cabinet. Cymbals sound like they've been polished to a bright metallic sheen, but there's no spitiness or hardness. 

 

The background is jet black silence. There is simply no noise at all at any volume.

 

I was about to say something about the PA5 limits, but given my distance of 13ft to the Fortes a quick calculation suggests near 100dB peaks at the MLP are consuming all of about 40W. Of course, I have immediately placed an order for another one so I can bi-amp each speaker...

 

Russ

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On 1/15/2022 at 7:53 AM, ClaudeJ1 said:

I read somewhere that the transient PEAK of scissor cutting paper with close miking can reach 140 db. Hard to believe, but who knows except those who measured it?

I remember a story like that from an old Carver advertisement:

 

 "Once, Bob Carver visited a famous sound researcher who was attempting to recreate the "snip" of an ordinary pair of scissors. He used no less that TWENTY-FOUR 200-watt amplifiers for playback. Yet when viewed on an oscilloscope it was apparent that the top of that instantaneous transition was being distorted. Believe it or not, he needed more power!"

 

https://www.carversound.com/carver-amplifiers/M-1.5t

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3 hours ago, jjptkd said:

I remember a story like that from an old Carver advertisement:

 

 "Once, Bob Carver visited a famous sound researcher who was attempting to recreate the "snip" of an ordinary pair of scissors. He used no less that TWENTY-FOUR 200-watt amplifiers for playback. Yet when viewed on an oscilloscope it was apparent that the top of that instantaneous transition was being distorted. Believe it or not, he needed more power!"

 

https://www.carversound.com/carver-amplifiers/M-1.5t

That's 36.81 dbWatts, so add that number to your nominal speaker sensitivity. Hope they can handle it! Probably OK for a milli to microsecond rise time, which I believe is what was being addressed.

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I'll have to spend some time with this little guy, but my quick initial thoughts are that it is VERY crispy up top, imaging and soundstage have shrunk from what I am used to and are more jumbled together, bass is pretty good, but again lighter and less extended than what I am used to.   But that is compared to a $3k class A am.   Now, being that this unit is 10X cheaper brand new, I might say I'M IMPRESSED so far.   Granted my mogami balanced cables and kimber speaker cables both brighten things up. I may just switch filters in the DAC to tame that a touch.   Solid work Topping.   Quality feels nice as well. 

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Going from a high gain amp with double the wattage that this low gain topping provides, my DAC output is up almost 25 dB higher for the same average level, however, this likely runs the DAC more in its sweet spot for output and SNR anyhow.   This is a very interesting little amp. I can see why people like it. I honestly believe this amp would be good enough for most people, that's a praise I can give it already.  For the money, it's crazy good.  I'm going to stay up a bit (even though I work tomorrow and have to be up very early) and listen to it if that tells you anything... 

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On 1/18/2022 at 10:21 PM, Westcoastdrums said:

I'm going to sell all of them until I have nothing to listen to.  

Then, according to pure objectivists, you'll have achieved the ultimate minimum noise floor possible in your circumstances. According to Bob Carver on the other hand, you could go deaf merely thinking of transients (by his estimates) so such dedication to the preservation of your hearing is worthy of applause!

 

Russ

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20 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Let the games begin!!

EVERYONE knows the silver ones sound sweeter due to their inherently higher photon reflectivity. THINK about how you have just compromised your noise floor? However, once warm (0.2degF above skin temperature) you should achieve a near perfect thermal balance after roughly 24 hours. Report back then... 🙃

 

Russ

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1 hour ago, HiFiRuss71 said:

EVERYONE knows the silver ones sound sweeter due to their inherently higher photon reflectivity. THINK about how you have just compromised your noise floor? However, once warm (0.2degF above skin temperature) you should achieve a near perfect thermal balance after roughly 24 hours. Report back then... 🙃

 

Russ

This is the main reason I got a Silver one and willing to wait 2 more weeks for it. Cables are Silver too. Why take a chance on having to buy it twice! (it will take surgery to remove the tongue stuck in my cheek over this one). Almost as good as the ultimate LSH!

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On 1/18/2022 at 11:33 PM, Westcoastdrums said:

Going from a high gain amp with double the wattage that this low gain topping provides, my DAC output is up almost 25 dB higher for the same average level, however, this likely runs the DAC more in its sweet spot for output and SNR anyhow.   This is a very interesting little amp. I can see why people like it. I honestly believe this amp would be good enough for most people, that's a praise I can give it already.  For the money, it's crazy good.  I'm going to stay up a bit (even though I work tomorrow and have to be up very early) and listen to it if that tells you anything... 

About the DAC running 25 db higher with lower Power Amp Gain: For people with sensitive Horn speakers, this is the reason why I recommend using an the Attenuator Box with a dual ganged 20 Kohm potentiometers between Pre and Power Amps with NO gain control. It forces the signal level UP for a better S/N ratio at the source, and make the Mechanical Rotation (or Numeric Displays) operate "up the scale" for finer volume control latitude. In my case it was to give my Pre Pro's Operational WINDOW the optimum volume level for it's YPAO system acoustic feedback adjustments. In other words, it's a way to give any system it's BEST SHOT.

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14 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

About the DAC running 25 db higher with lower Power Amp Gain: For people with sensitive Horn speakers, this is the reason why I recommend using an the Attenuator Box with a dual ganged 20 Kohm potentiometers between Pre and Power Amps with NO gain control. It forces the signal level UP for a better S/N ratio at the source, and make the Mechanical Rotation (or Numeric Displays) operate "up the scale" for finer volume control latitude. In my case it was to give my Pre Pro's Operational WINDOW the optimum volume level for it's YPAO system acoustic feedback adjustments. In other words, it's a way to give any system it's BEST SHOT.

Agreed 

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