Topping PA5 is incredible.

[richieb]

Rich

It is not going to stack up to the “space heater”. I doubt the Topping will give the listening nuance of a Nelson Pass design. I’ve convinced myself Hypex nCore doesn’t and I’d bet this is no better or not even as accomplished as Hypex. It’s winter, so cozy up to the J2 and be content or make yourself even happier and buy another watch - 😉

[rplace]

19 minutes ago, babadono said:

Why not?.....I say yes it is do-able. There will be minute (as in not detectable by MY ears)differences because the analog electronics in the the Xilica are not built with 0% tolerance parts. Probably true of the 2 channels in the PA5 also.

 

What do you mean? 

[ClaudeJ1]

On 1/27/2022 at 12:10 PM, richieb said:

Rich

It is not going to stack up to the “space heater”. I doubt the Topping will give the listening nuance of a Nelson Pass design. I’ve convinced myself Hypex nCore doesn’t and I’d bet this is no better or not even as accomplished as Hypex. It’s winter, so cozy up to the J2 and be content or make yourself even happier and buy another watch - 😉

You're back to words without empirical data to back it up. How do you know the PA5 is like a Hypex? It could be a clone of the THX AAA 888 Technology used in the Benchmark. The Chinese are clever thieves or have ways of doing things that get around patents, if they ever bother with that aspect.

 

Your opinion is watered down by lack of listening experience or data. So even though you verbally agreed with me, this quote clearly shows you do not.

[MEH Synergy]

25 minutes ago, babadono said:

Why not?.....I say yes it is do-able. There will be minute (as in not detectable by MY ears)differences because the analog electronics in the the Xilica are not built with 0% tolerance parts. Probably true of the 2 channels in the PA5 also.

Sounds like yes to me if I understand correctly and the impedance doesn't drop super low.  I think the PA5 is rated down to 3 ohms.   I doubt a dip below briefly here and there would bother it much as long as it isn't 1 ohm. 

[rplace]

9 minutes ago, richieb said:

Rich

It is not going to stack up to the “space heater”. I doubt the Topping will give the listening nuance of a Nelson Pass design. I’ve convinced myself Hypex nCore doesn’t and I’d bet this is no better or not even as accomplished as Hypex. It’s winter, so cozy up to the J2 and be content or make yourself even happier and buy another watch - 😉

 

 

That is why I was putting that for step 2 down the road if I like what I hear with the two doing low end duties. I have multiple crossover point saved. As low as 300 and as high as 800. Its sounding amazing now, but always fun to play around with something different. 

 

I agree it will be hard to beat Nelson for the mids. Also, if I have two, one for each channel I can easily do a trial run with one PA50 for mids and one powering all 15" woofers...though I doubt that would top the dual Crowns. Still listening is the real test.

 

I recently had a guy at my house to buy some stuff. He has a mega-dollar "real" system and endless vintage Mac/Onkio gear to swap out in his "vintage" room. He was amazed at my set up. Asked how much my speakers cost. When I told him I made them the didn't know what to say. Took pictures and videos to show his friend.

[ClaudeJ1]

Just now, Westcoastdrums said:

Sounds like yes to me if I understand correctly and the impedance doesn't drop super low.  I think the PA5 is rated down to 3 ohms.   I doubt a dip below briefly here and there would bother it much as long as it isn't 1 ohm. 

My impedance, as I wrote before, ranges from 8-32 ohms without Autofomers in the circuits, just 16 ohms in series, about as neutral as you can get without introducing phase shifts.

 

[rplace]

1 minute ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

My impedance, as I wrote before, ranges from 8-32 ohms without Autofomers in the circuits, just 16 ohms in series, about as neutral as you can get without introducing phase shifts.

 

 

Claude, go back and read 2nd post form bottom of last page. I think @Westcoastdrums "westie" is replying to my line of questions. I'm wondering about two PA50s. One getting 2 left channels of info and the other 2 channels of right info. Then feeding 4 woofers independently two right and two left.

[ClaudeJ1]

6 minutes ago, rplace said:

I agree it will be hard to beat Nelson for the mids. Also, if I have two, one for each channel I can easily do a trial run with one PA50 for mids and one powering all 15" woofers...though I doubt that would top the dual Crowns. Still listening is the real test.

Keep in mind, the PA5 is not a high wattage amplifier, so comparing to Crown should include that possible limitation on a direct radiator woofer section (not horn loaded). Fair is fair.

 

One the Pass F stuff, I've heard several of those space heaters too, but the SIT-3 takes all the marbles in my book of low power space heaters!

 

[ClaudeJ1]

Just now, rplace said:

 

Claude, go back and read 2nd post form bottom of last page. I think @Westcoastdrums "westie" is replying to my line of questions. I'm wondering about two PA50s. One getting 2 left channels of info and the other 2 channels of right info. Then feeding 4 woofers independently two right and two left.

Your particulars will make some interesting feedback when you do it! More data for all of us to chew on.

[rplace]

2 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Your particulars will make some interesting feedback when you do it! More data for all of us to chew on

 

So there is nothing wrong with my thinking of how I could utilize two PA50s for 4 woofers? In the end it is really 4 speakers with 4 amp channels. What could go wrong, right?

 

4 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Keep in mind, the PA5 is not a high wattage amplifier,

 

I don't think I need a ton of power for my system and listening needs. Just used the dual Crowns because I had them.

[ClaudeJ1]

3 minutes ago, rplace said:

 

So there is nothing wrong with my thinking of how I could utilize two PA50s for 4 woofers?

 

 

I don't think I need a ton of power for my system and listening needs. Just used the dual Crowns because I had them.

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. Yes your thinking of the separate channels for woofers makes sense because you Y connect the inputs instead of the outputs. If one amp is good, then 2 must be better then, right? LOL

 

Plus your gain matching will apply to both woofers since your are using one amp per channel with the same input from you Xilica.

[rplace]

5 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Yes your thinking of the separate channels for woofers makes sense because you Y connect the inputs instead of the outputs

 

I was thinking that is exactly what the Xillica is designed for. I don't think I need to "Y" anything. In a simple example, just just one channel, wouldn't it just be:

 

Left into Xillica >> do it's magic >> Two Left Outs from Xillica >> Channel 1 Amp in >> Left Woofer 1

                                                                                                             >> Channel 2 Amp in >> Left Woofer 2

 

I'm thinking that gives me identical left data to both amp channels and same to both woofers

[jjptkd]

1 hour ago, rplace said:

Not running the PA50 as a monbock per se, but one amp per side. Where the side has two woofers.

 

I'm thinking if good results then possibly a 3rd PA50 as a test to see how it stack up against the First Watt space heater.

 

Doable?

 

For context I'm currently running dual Crown XLS 1002 (bridged). One for each side. Meaning one bridged channel powering 2 x 15". 

This is basically a type of vertical bi-amping which is what I would do if I really liked the amplifier but felt I needed a little more power.

[richieb]

54 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

You're back to words without empirical data to back it up. How do you know the PA5 is like a Hypex? It could be a clone of the THX AAA 888 Technology used in the Benchmark. The Chinese are clever thieves or have ways of doing things that get around patents, if they ever bother with that aspect.

 

Your opinion is watered down by lack or listening experience or data. So even though you verbally agreed with me, this quote clearly shows you do not.

You’re correct in that I have no data or listening experience to back up my opinion. Admittedly it is my Nelson Pass Labs bias who is quite clever himself without infringing on others past work. And helll for $350 I may well give it a shot. 

[rplace]

4 minutes ago, richieb said:

And helll for $350 I may well give it a shot

 

I'll await your review and garage sale posting for $300 as noted elsewhere in this thread. 😁

 

Agree on all things Nelson you mentioned. I still can't believe how good the darn things sounds. I've not had any regrets getting rid of all my tube gear. Well, I must admit, I miss the looks of the tubes and revocation of my cool-guy-club card.

[babadono]

1 hour ago, rplace said:

 

What do you mean? 

I mean there are minute variations in any two supposedly identical channels of any system.

But definitely you can set up the Xilica to put out the same thing on 2 channels and feed each one into a separate amp channel. Heck you could "Y" cable one channel of Xilica output into the 2 separate amp input channels.

[ClaudeJ1]

59 minutes ago, richieb said:

You’re correct in that I have no data or listening experience to back up my opinion. Admittedly it is my Nelson Pass Labs bias who is quite clever himself without infringing on others past work. And helll for $350 I may well give it a shot. 

Of course you will give us your future UNbiased results here, correct?

[ClaudeJ1]

1 hour ago, rplace said:

 

I was thinking that is exactly what the Xillica is designed for. I don't think I need to "Y" anything. In a simple example, just just one channel, wouldn't it just be:

 

Left into Xillica >> do it's magic >> Two Left Outs from Xillica >> Channel 1 Amp in >> Left Woofer 1

                                                                                                             >> Channel 2 Amp in >> Left Woofer 2

 

I'm thinking that gives me identical left data to both amp channels and same to both woofers

Why create 2 separate signal paths in a Crossover if not needed? Unless your afraid of cutting the input impdance in half at the amp from using a Y cable. But hey, it doesn't matter how you do it unless you to create another A/B test in addition to just the amp and/or you can simply spare the extra channel. It's more of a cable type issue at that point.

[rplace]

10 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Why create 2 separate signal paths in a Crossover if not needed? Unless your afraid of cutting the input impdance in half at the amp from using a Y cable. But hey, it doesn't matter how you do it unless you to create another A/B test in addition to just the amp and/or you can simply spare the extra channel. It's more of a cable type issue at that point.

 

Ok, good to know. I only know enough to be dangerous. That is why I always try to vet my ideas against you all. So much good collective knowledge here.

 

I guess I just thought in my mind that since the Xillica could do 8 in and 8 out it was the correct/only way to do it. I've got different amps and processing for HT vs 2-channel. And corresponding presets for the Xillica. I had a couple of spares so it just made sense to me that I would map the left IN to 2 Outs vs 1 and same with the right. Y cable seems easier now that you (and @babadono) pointed that out.

 

Now I guess the quest is to go hunting for a XLR to dual TRS Y cable....only to cut the XLR off and use the Phoenix on the 8080 <sigh>

[babadono]

4 minutes ago, rplace said:

 

Ok, good to know. I only know enough to be dangerous. That is why I always try to vet my ideas against you all. So much good collective knowledge here.

 

I guess I just thought in my mind that since the Xillica could do 8 in and 8 out it was the correct/only way to do it. I've got different amps and processing for HT vs 2-channel. And corresponding presets for the Xillica. I had a couple of spares so it just made sense to me that I would map the left IN to 2 Outs vs 1 and same with the right. Y cable seems easier now that you (and @babadono) pointed that out.

 

Now I guess the quest is to go hunting for a XLR to dual TRS Y cable....only to cut the XLR off and use the Phoenix on the 8080 <sigh>

Since you will cutting off the one end it could be a single TRS to dual TRS. Whatever is cheaper I guess. If it were me I would build it myself, but hey that's just me.