Hoping to improve my '75 La Scalas

[Squishman]

Howdy! My first post here! I have 2 HT's. Bedroom system is a 5.2.1 with Heresy III's for mains and an Academy center speaker. Living room is 5.1.2 and has '75 La Scalas for mains and a KP-201 for my center speaker. I have had numerous others Klipsch speakers in the past, but this is what I have at the moment.  

I have a question about my La Scalas. I bought them a few months ago and the previous owner did not know what upgrades were done, except the mid drivers. Turns out it has a few upgrades and I want to know if I can do better. Willing to consider changing out any components to make these sound as good as they possibly can. If I can do better with anything, advise would be appreciated! I am not a speaker expert, but I can follow instructions, including soldering, wiring, etc. I have changed out several tweeter diaphragms, built numerous speakers from kits, etc. So I can handle anything that they might need. Photos attached here of what I have, except the woofers, which are original. I checked. Now, these La Scalas sound good as is. But I have a feeling they could sound better. My amp is an Onkyo TX-NR696 AVR and it has the ability to set any pair (heights, surrounds) as mains for 2 channel listening. Kind of fun to try. My surrounds are upgraded Minimus 77's, upgraded from a kit with metal cone 5" woofers, Miller and Kreisel tweeters and modern xovers and they sound brighter than my La Scalas with I set them as mains. I knew they were good or possibly great as I used to use them as mains before I discovered Klipsch 12 or so years ago. But it was a little disappointing that they have a crisper high end (possibly midrange too) than my La Scalas. I hope the photos are good. Model numbers are clear enough I think. Tweeter and xover are Crites. Woofers are original. Thanks!

[Deang]

You're going to get a lot of different answers (of course). They are perfectly fine the way they are -- just listen to them for a while. If you have the itch to spend money, upgrade your amplification.

[Squishman]

1 minute ago, Deang said:

You're going to get a lot of different answers (of course). They are perfectly fine the way they are -- just listen to them for a while. If you have the itch to spend money, upgrade your amplification.

I just got this Onkyo. La Scalas don't need a lot of power. If this is true and maybe it is, someone will have to tell me how that would improve the sound. I hear that tubes are the way to go, but this is a 7 channel system. My line out is already spoken for. I use it to record LP's to mp3 on a laptop. 

[Deang]

You have pre-outs, you could add a good 2-channel amp. It's not about the amount of power, but the quality of the power. 

 

You also have a minimalist crossover, and you could do some things with that, but you just got these -- so I figure maybe work on the downstream stuff first.

[Squishman]

5 minutes ago, Deang said:

You have pre-outs, you could add a good 2-channel amp. It's not about the amount of power, but the quality of the power. 

 

You also have a minimalist crossover, and you could do some things with that, but you just got these -- so I figure maybe work on the downstream stuff first.

That's what I would do, change the xover or drivers. You say add an amp. I still don't know why. It provides enough power for Klipsch Heritage. Like I said, my pre-outs are occupied and I will not be unplugging my laptop. 

[Deang]

You said line out. Line out and pre out are not the same. Pre out is normally used to add an external amp. 

 

Your tweeter has already been replaced, and your midrange driver is fine - and while you can replace it, you may prefer a different network. What you are using now is hit or miss around here. I personally don't care for it much.

[Squishman]

5 minutes ago, Deang said:

You said line out. Line out and pre out are not the same. Pre out is normally used to add an external amp. 

 

Your tweeter has already been replaced, and your midrange driver is fine - and while you can replace it, you may prefer a different network. What you are using now is hit or miss around here. I personally don't care for it much.

Right. It has a zone 2 out that I am using as a line out. No pre-amp outs. I mis-spoke. All but the woofers are not original. I know that. 

You don't care for what? You said network. The xover? 

Someone who knows a thing or two about building and testing speakers told me that the mid driver is a cheap one. No idea if he is correct. 

Hopefully more will pipe in here. I'd love to get some more feedback from folks. 

 

[Deang]

Well, yeah - you can get the driver new for less than $400, but the horn by extension is kind of part of the driver - and combined I wouldn’t exactly call them cheap. It’s a good driver. Depending on what year your LaScalas are, they might benefit from new diaphragms. “Networks”, yes - crossovers. You can learn to mod/build them yourself, or pay someone like me great sums of money to build them for you. 

[CWOReilly]

I’d test the tweeters if you feel they aren’t bright. You have the “go to” tweeter as it is. Your crossover is good too however it’s my understanding that that particular crossover version may be better in larger spaces and higher volumes. Also double check the wiring and connections. 

[Squishman]

23 minutes ago, CWOReilly said:

I’d test the tweeters if you feel they aren’t bright. You have the “go to” tweeter as it is. Your crossover is good too however it’s my understanding that that particular crossover version may be better in larger spaces and higher volumes. Also double check the wiring and connections. 

I do not know how to test a tweeter. They are working if you put your ear to it. So these are good ones? That is good to know. What do you know about the midrange driver?  Who else makes xovers, if I can do better, that is?

[Deang]

27 minutes ago, CWOReilly said:

Your crossover is good too however it’s my understanding that that particular crossover version may be better in larger spaces and higher volumes.

Nope. The complete opposite. 

[Squishman]

Just now, Deang said:

Nope. The complete opposite. 

Not good? Or good for home purposes? 

 

[Deang]

Your network is a low order type, and they work best in smaller rooms and intimate settings. Steep slope, high order networks are better for large rooms and/or high power levels. 

[Squishman]

4 minutes ago, Deang said:

Your network is a low order type, and they work best in smaller rooms and intimate settings. Steep slope, high order networks are better for large rooms and/or high power levels. 

Oh ok. Thx. 

[Squishman]

One thing just came to mind.... perhaps my surrounds are just overly bright. That is indeed a possibility. I did not think of that until now! When I used them as mains they would blow you away, but they were way too harsh to use as mains. As surrounds, I like them. I previously had Forte II's with Crites xovers and ti tweeter diaphragms, but I never compared them to my surrounds and I did not compare them to the La Scalas before I sold them. I wonder if that's the case! I built my heights too. They are walnut Minimus 7's with same M&K tweeters, but stock Radio Shack woofers and not at all harsh or bright like the surrounds. Any thoughts on this? 

[Squishman]

Here is a shot. I found the solid copper badges on ebay. 

[geoff.]

Maybe try an apples to apples comparison.

 

Hook the LS to speakers A and the others to speakers B and switch back and forth.

[CWOReilly]

2 hours ago, Deang said:

Nope. The complete opposite. 

Not a good crossover? Isn’t that the steep slope Crites? 

[Squishman]

32 minutes ago, geoff. said:

Maybe try an apples to apples comparison.

 

Hook the LS to speakers A and the others to speakers B and switch back and forth.

My Onkyo does that. You can assign any pair as mains. When I did that just for fun is when I found my surrounds much brighter. What I think I'll do tomorrow is bring out my Heresy III's from the other room and see how they compare to the LS's (and the surrounds!). That should be interesting. I'll let you know what I find out. 

[KT88]

5 hours ago, Deang said:

Well, yeah - you can get the driver new for less than $400, but the horn by extension is kind of part of the driver - and combined I wouldn’t exactly call them cheap. It’s a good driver. Depending on what year your LaScalas are, they might benefit from new diaphragms. “Networks”, yes - crossovers. You can learn to mod/build them yourself, or pay someone like me great sums of money to build them for you. 

The PD-5VH seen on the photo should be the current replaced version of the original K55V from 1975. So it should not need a new diaphragm. I would suggest to try an AA network. All is personal taste but I have a changeable A/AA network from Crites even if not the 4500Hz version. I for my taste prefer the AA setting for better intelligibility and I have replaced the Sonicaps against polyester types but that is a matter of personal taste. Your drivers all should be fine and the Atlas driver for the mid horn is a fine product with a very good Alnico magnet which I like a lot.