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Klipsch center channel to compliment my Forte I


mjcmt
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37 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Not true.  They are not timbre matched.

 

9 minutes ago, Tom05 said:

I didn’t say that they are timber matched , I said that they are voiced close to identical , I can personally attest to this because I have a set of Heresy II’ and a set of Fortes .

An exact timber match would only come from another Forte I  . The farther you get from the heritage or extended heritage  line the more the mismatch, also the Academy while a fine speaker does not match the Heresy dynamics or output making it a week center in comparison.

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35 minutes ago, Tom05 said:

 

An exact timber match would only come from another Forte I  . The farther you get from the heritage or extended heritage  line the more the mismatch, also the Academy while a fine speaker does not match the Heresy dynamics or output making it a week center in comparison.

Unless it doesn't fit...Then what do you do?

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30 minutes ago, Tom05 said:

Well it’s not always easy , sometimes you have to make it fit , but the rewards can be great.🤓

Imo, the reality seems to be he wants something that fits and sounds good and he won't look back after the decision is made. He has some good recommendations and if they don't work he could go the harder route. 

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First, I'm not sure any of the current Reference or RP centers will be a good match.  They are probably voiced too differently.

When the era of Dolby Digital surround started (probably around 1992), I had original Forte speakers for the mains in our first home theater.  I was looking to get my first center speaker and had the following experience.

 

At the time Klipsch only had three speakers marketed as center channel speakers: the KG 1.2V, the KG 2.2V, and the Academy.  At first, I tried going as inexpensive as I thought I could reasonably go and purchased a KG 2.2V.  This speaker was totally inadequate to match the Fortes.  It sounded nothing like them and could not “keep up” due to much lower sensitivity/max output.

 

So, I traded that in for an Academy.  I did not find it to be a sonic match for the Fortes either (despite Klipsch marketing it as such).  It was definitely a much better center than the KG 2.2V but still didn’t work for me.  It sounds more like a match for the original kg series, not the Forte family.  From the moment I started using it, I was aware of the sound character change in the center as sounds panned across the front.  It was very disconcerting and was a constant distraction.

 

Soon after I got the Academy I went back to the dealer and made a deal to trade it in for a single Heresy II.  The 3-way design was a much better match for the 3-way Fortes.  I have been happy with that decision ever since.

Just recently I acquired a KLF-C7 for another system.  So, I did a quick comparison using KLF-30 mains with the KLF-C7 and my Heresy II.  The KLF-C7 is a decent match for 3-way Klipsch mains.  It's definitely not as good a match as a Heresy but it's a better match than the Academy in my opinion.

 

So, if you can't accommodate a Heresy (or even better another Forte) then I'd look for a KLF-C7.  Now I know that the KLF-C7 at 11" is taller than 8".  However, consider putting it on top of the stand with the TV on top of it.

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1 minute ago, Zen Traveler said:

Imo, the reality seems to be he wants something that fits and sounds good and he won't look back after the decision is made. :)

Probably right , I love this hobby and for years I tended to put unnecessary obstacles in my path towards a better setup , I see others doing the same thing , so I try to give them what I believe is a better ,but maybe less convenient solution . Just another option , right or wrong .  Have a good one

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Looks like I'll not be getting a center speaker for my system because folks here say none of the current center speakers match the Forte and will fit the A/V rack so I'll probably sell the AVR. I put my Rega Mira3 integrated amp back in the system for a 2.0 HT system. I did like the room correction, speaker tweaking, and DSP functions of the Yamaha, but the Rega is the better sounding amp and mates well with the Forte because the amp's warmth and PRaT really compliment the airy dynamic Forte. It's really quite an impressive presentation. (But if I come across a R-52c reference Klipsch center or similar that fits for a fine price I try it before putting the Yamaha rxv681 on the chopping block.)

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Look for a KSP-C6. It was from the synergy "Premiere" line (which was "reference" before reference came out), so it's relatively unknown... I am using one with my Heresy II's & it sounds great! (& it sounds great with my Chorus 1's too).

It may not be "matching timbre" on paper, but the specs are close, & you can manually fine tune the sound with your AVR reciever if necessary.

It's like a KLF-C7, but with smaller woofers (so it fits tight spaces better)
 
 
 
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5 hours ago, Chorus1 Fan said:
Look for a KSP-C6. It was from the synergy "Premiere" line (which was "reference" before reference came out), so it's relatively unknown... I am using one with my Heresy II's & it sounds great! (& it sounds great with my Chorus 1's too).

It may not be "matching timbre" on paper, but the specs are close, & you can manually fine tune the sound with your AVR reciever if necessary.

It's like a KLF-C7, but with smaller woofers (so it fits tight spaces better)
 
 
 

 

I'd have to respectfully disagree about the KSP-C6.  When I did my center comparison between the KLF-C7 and my Heresy II, I threw in the KSP-C6 that I had gotten bundled with the pair of KSP-S6 surrounds that I was really after.  I posted about this whole comparison to the Klipsch Owners Facebook group.  I'll repost the text from that post here for your consideration
-------------------------------------------------

Now that I finally have KLF-C7 I decided to do a comparison between that and the center I’ve used for years with my KLF-30, a single Heresy II.  I also threw in the KSP-C6 that I got with the KSP-S6 I purchased a few weeks ago to see how it fairs.  Since I redid the family room system with Palladiums, my KLF-30 have been moved into a two-channel system in the less used living room.  I’m driving them with an older pre-HDMI Denon surround receiver.  So, I temporarily hooked up the center speaker connection and moved the KLF-30 slight further apart to fit in a center.  All speakers except the KSP-C6 have Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms installed.  I only have an old “universal” DVD player hooked up there, so I had to used DVD movies and multi-channel DVD-A/SACD discs for the test.  Since I don’t have the space or equipment to set up rapid switching between them, I determined and recorded the proper level for each center before all the testing.  That way I quickly reset the proper level when switching them.  I know this is not a scientific test but my impressions of each are as follows:

 

Heresy II:  I almost didn’t bother getting this out of the box to test since I’ve used it as the center for the KLF-30 since I got them and been very satisfied.  Since both the KLF-30 and Heresy cross from horns to cones at nearly the same frequency (825 Hz, 850 Hz) the low distortion through the mid-range comes through on each.  To my ear, this is best match of the three.  They work very seamlessly together particularly in the vocals.

 

KSP-C6:  Using this as center immediately reminded me of the short time that I had an Academy as a center with my Forte.  I did not find those two to be a good sonic match.  The Academy was a good speaker but sounded more like KG series to me.  It’s the same with the KSP-C6 in this case.  While it’s a good speaker it is own right, it is not a good sonic match for the KLF-30.  I found myself constantly distracted by the mismatch.  One interesting thing about this speaker is that while it has a square horn mouth it actually has a “slot-horn” design (parallel vertical walls that then widen out more than the horizontal walls) giving it a 90° horizontal x 60° vertical coverage pattern, which is the opposite of the KLF-C7.  Because of this I expected it to have decent off-axis performance, but I was wrong.  I found that the sound quality dropped pretty rapidly as you moved off-axis.  Since I now have the KLF-C7 for the system I’m putting together for my son, I’ll likely end up sell this one at some point.  (Edit: On second thought, this would probably be a good match for my stand mounted AW-650.  If my son wants to do outdoor movie night with his friends again, I can make it a 5-channel setup using the AW-650, the KSP-C6, and a pair of KSP-S6 on stools.  😊 )

 

KLF-C7:  I was very skeptical of this being a good match with the 3-way Legend series towers even though it’s the center made for the Legend series.  My experience of mixing 2-way and 3-way Klipsch speakers in the front stage has not been good.  However, the KLF-C7 really surprised me.  This is a really good center speaker and a good match for the KLF-30.  While it is missing some of the mid-range richness of the Heresy II, I found the match across the front to be very good and almost never distracting.  Also, even with the horn coverage pattern being 90° vertical x 60° horizontal the off-axis performance was quite good for a horizontal MTM speaker.  It’s the first 2-way center that I could likely live with.  I’m really glad I finally snagged one of these.

 

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6 hours ago, MMurg said:

 

I'd have to respectfully disagree about the KSP-C6. 
--------------------------------One interesting thing about this speaker is that while it has a square horn mouth it actually has a “slot-horn” design (parallel vertical walls that then widen out more than the horizontal walls) giving it a 90° horizontal x 60° vertical coverage pattern, which is the opposite of the KLF-C7.  Because of this I expected it to have decent off-axis performance, but I was wrong.  I found that the sound quality dropped pretty rapidly as you moved off-axis.  

 

Noted, but I realized that I also forgot to mention that I swapped out the tweeter in my KSP-C6 with one from the highly rated RB-5. (K-105-K, Titanium diaphragm, better horn lens, etc.) Probably why I like it 😃

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On 12/24/2021 at 1:30 PM, billybob said:

This works well for lifting tv height, which enables space underneath for speakers, etc., If present stand not high enough. Inexpensive fix.

J-mount image courtesy Amazon:

 

image.png.972ff2cbdcda270a8108337c3f2ee211.png

thanks BillyBob. We can easily set center on top rack and put tv on it, but we don't want to block anymore of the window and increase the size of a huge monolith in the living room. I'll try to find a reference center to fit in the rack and give to give it a try. If I don't like what I hear the AVR will be gone and I'll use the Rega amp, which sounds better, for a 2.0 system.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/23/2021 at 9:11 PM, MMurg said:

First, I'm not sure any of the current Reference or RP centers will be a good match.  They are probably voiced too differently.

When the era of Dolby Digital surround started (probably around 1992), I had original Forte speakers for the mains in our first home theater.  I was looking to get my first center speaker and had the following experience.

 

At the time Klipsch only had three speakers marketed as center channel speakers: the KG 1.2V, the KG 2.2V, and the Academy.  At first, I tried going as inexpensive as I thought I could reasonably go and purchased a KG 2.2V.  This speaker was totally inadequate to match the Fortes.  It sounded nothing like them and could not “keep up” due to much lower sensitivity/max output.

 

So, I traded that in for an Academy.  I did not find it to be a sonic match for the Fortes either (despite Klipsch marketing it as such).  It was definitely a much better center than the KG 2.2V but still didn’t work for me.  It sounds more like a match for the original kg series, not the Forte family.  From the moment I started using it, I was aware of the sound character change in the center as sounds panned across the front.  It was very disconcerting and was a constant distraction.

 

Soon after I got the Academy I went back to the dealer and made a deal to trade it in for a single Heresy II.  The 3-way design was a much better match for the 3-way Fortes.  I have been happy with that decision ever since.

Just recently I acquired a KLF-C7 for another system.  So, I did a quick comparison using KLF-30 mains with the KLF-C7 and my Heresy II.  The KLF-C7 is a decent match for 3-way Klipsch mains.  It's definitely not as good a match as a Heresy but it's a better match than the Academy in my opinion.

 

So, if you can't accommodate a Heresy (or even better another Forte) then I'd look for a KLF-C7.  Now I know that the KLF-C7 at 11" is taller than 8".  However, consider putting it on top of the stand with the TV on top of it.

 

I had exactly the opposite experience Academy vs KLF-C7; I ran the C7 with my (original series) Fortes, but could hear very distinct - almost out-of-phase - differences with material that panned, or was shared by the Fortes and the C7.  I had previously tried to use an RC-3, and the difference was even more stark.

When I finally scored an Academy, that weird sound transition went away.  The Forte and Academy definitely do sound different - you can tell even better when doing manual channel test tone pans; orc when someone walks from middle to either side while speaking, and the sound engineers correctly mix the sound to follow.  However, there is not nearly the same weirdness in the timbre of the sound as with the other centers I've tried, at least to my ears.

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1 hour ago, Zen Traveler said:

Isn't the internet great? :) My guess is alot of this is psychoacoustical and once you level-match any of the speakers in question it would work.

 

Well, all of the center speakers of which I spoke were properly level-matched when I was using them.  I used the same sound level meter for all of them.

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10 hours ago, MMurg said:

 

Well, all of the center speakers of which I spoke were properly level-matched when I was using them.  I used the same sound level meter for all of them.

Sure. My comment had more to do with finding differing opinions on the internet such as the one above my comment. Nothing beats experimenting for yourself.

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I have owned the Chorus II's , Academy center and KG 2.5 surrounds for many years and have never had the desire to change a thing. My Yamaha receiver adjusted 'things' just enough to work like a champ. I have changed all tweeter diaphragms to the Crites titanium ones. All level adjust white noise sounds exactly the same timber around the room. Yes, even the KG2.5 surrounds. Of course, this and levels must be adjusted per room due to irregularities etc. etc. anyways. All double checked with an analog Radio Shack level meter. All three tweeters are exactly the same height up front thanks to the equipment cabinet allowing this, and I am sure helps a lot for seamless sound movement up front as well. The tv is wall mounted with about a quarter inch gap above the academy.  Yup, another Forte would be best, but not many folks have the room or $, and they want or don't mind a tv sort of high up on the wall. 😉 I prefer seeing the tv as eye level as possible when seated. I agree with what you have said about your window there too mjcmt. I also own Heresy II's and thought about using one for a center, but again, too big for our setup. I have requested that Klipsch make a center and surrounds for the Heritage line, but I don't think they are having any of that ..lol.. Yup..the internet is great. Thanks for laugh Zen. I know what you mean.  It's all a blast any way you go!!  ~~this Academy here just looks like it belongs between those Chorus'.~~ Awesome looks and sound!! Take care all.  ~Mike        Here is my current setup: I cannot get any changes to stick in my signature?

ChorusII main

Academy center

KG2.5 rear surrounds mounted with Omnimount brackets

Hsu VTF-3 sub (main front) Original, front firing version

Klipsch SW311 sub (rear) under end table.

Yamaha RX-V2700 receiver

OPPO UDP-203 4K Blu-ray

 

Promedia 2.1 PC.

Samsung 65", LED, LCD Living rm  mounted with Omnimount bracket

Soon adding a Decware tube amp

 

HeresyII's on standby in their boxes until make room in bedroom again..

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On 12/23/2021 at 7:30 AM, mjcmt said:

I'm looking for a recommendation of a Klipsch center channel to compliment my Forte I powered by a Yamaha RX-V681 AVR.

there are 2 Brand new R-52C on Ebay or 200$/free shipping

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